Where's the Ark?

Probably the most sought after religeous artifact the world has ever known, we all know where it's been, but where is it now?

Geometrys golden mean

Post Number:#126  Postby Roger Snow » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:04 am

Take the above increments, this is perfect sacred geometry.
The base of the Ark would be the perfect example of a Golden Rectangle.

In almost all ancient structure the Golden Mean is found as the formula by which they were layed out and
constructed.
The sacred hebrew cubit, a perfect increment for the geometry of such creations.

FP, i do at times have a vist with a Rabbi Friend of mine from Israel, Rabi Moishe
when at a gathering with the rabi and friends, as they all speak,,, whew!

He has given a few veiws that have been very helpful in decoding the symbols i have discovered, and
is quite convinced in my theory of Solomons and Hirams men coming here for Ophir Gold.

Working with him, i raised the idea that it was not Ophir the traveled to, but Tarshish to retrieve Ophir Gold.
His big baby blues lit up, a snort, a smile, and said: You have a way of causing me to look deeper at things i thought i already had the answer to,,, dang, now i am faced with another avenue to look into~

He's a great sweetheart of a guy, loves to study and share his thoughts as well as teach.

He has been my source for hebrew picture words as symbols, and I have learned enough from his teaching to erase any doubt in my mind that Hebrew/ phoeniccian contact in the states goes back near 3000 years.
I am further convinced that The Phoeniccians, or rather the people they are descended down from
Had contact with the western hemisphere way before that even.

Free of any predisposed agenda or formal guide lines and parameters, i came across these sites and artefacts with open mind, allowing for me to make assumptions of them and then seek the possibilites
of the phoeniccian / solomon connection as well as other possibile connections , even Atlantis or Lumeria.

anyway, i am convinced that this hemisphere was oft times visited way back in time, and also that sacred geometry was spread far and wide by that contact between the peoples.

Rog'




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Re: hard, its hard to do

Post Number:#127  Postby zelph » Wed May 28, 2014 2:59 pm

Whyte Eagle wrote:Some will say that possession of any given object represents 9/10's of the law ...
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... I think that was certainly true in ancient history where the lack of governing bodies of civilized societies were concerned ... The Ark of the Covenant definitely arrived in the Americas with a purpose initially, but with time, whoever was strongest were most likely to be in control of the spoils of war ... the Ark included ... this does not mean that those who maintained possession had any idea of exactly what the Ark represented, or its potential ... which made for curious insights at times ... it also contributed to the nick name it came to have while it traveled to and fro across the continent ... so in answer to your question, my best answer is that it was only entrusted to those who brought it here initially, over time it changed hands and that level of trust was no longer the same due to the lack of knowledge of those who would come to have it in their possession as a result of war or other means ...



Been doing a little reading :~d

Whoooo buddy.....this one is really interesting, if you know where I'm comin from ;=)
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#128  Postby zelph » Wed May 28, 2014 3:03 pm

SteveNM46 wrote:Whyte, you've offered a solution to the question of the Ark of the Covenant's location since it was removed from Solomon's Temple, but you've provided no evidence. This thread is similar to Boren's book - outrageous, radical claims that, in the end, can only be accepted at face value by faith alone. I realize that religeo-historical dogma is in play here, but outrageous claims demand convincing evidence. Your language indicates you are certain of your facts, but what are those facts? A prudent man would deduct that you are preaching to the choir, not the sinners.



Excellent point!!!
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#129  Postby zelph » Wed May 28, 2014 7:57 pm

Florida Photographer wrote:Hey Whyte, I'm a little confused by your info on the LID. ( I'm not being argumentative)2) The ~lid~ of the Ark of the Covenant was exactly that for the the first 40 + years or so, once it reached it's first semi-permanent location in the Temple of Solomon, the ~lid~ was replaced with the ~Mercy Seat~ which has remained with the real Ark to this day and is the only part of the Ark that was made from a form of solid gold.
Where did this info come from? According to the Bible it was built all at the same time. Here is what the Bible says:

Exod 25:10-22 ~And they shall make an ark of acacia wood; two and a half cubits shall be its length, a cubit and a half its width, and a cubit and a half its height. And you shall overlay it with pure gold, inside and out you shall overlay it, and shall make on it a molding of gold all around. You shall cast four rings of gold for it, and put them in its four corners; two rings shall be on one side, and two rings on the other side. And you shall make poles of acacia wood, and overlay them with gold. You shall put the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark, that the ark may be carried by them. The poles shall be in the rings of the ark; they shall not be taken from it. And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you. You shall make a mercy seat of pure gold; two and a half cubits shall be its length and a cubit and a half its width. And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work you shall make them at the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub at one end, and the other cherub at the other end; you shall make the cherubim at the two ends of it of one piece with the mercy seat. And the cherubim shall stretch out their wings above, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and they shall face one another; the faces of the cherubim shall be toward the mercy seat. You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you. And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony, about everything which I will give you in commandment to the children of Israel."

Image

Any clarification will be appreciated. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.[/quote



Whyte Eagle Response to avove quote:

Whyte Eagle wrote:sThat i what is laid out in the scriptural reference, at least the KJ version... my reasoning for the Mercy Seat being added later comes from a couple of different references, but the major one being several different depictions of the the Ark in Transit prior to the battle of Jericho which shows the Ark with out the Mercy Seat, but rather with an ordinary lid. I did post one of those images at the beginning of another thread but took it down when it appeared that it was fueling the fire for a couple of individuals. I also have a reference to how the Mercy seat was really used and needed for their leadership which would have made the Mercy Seat rather cumbersome to manage in a 40 year wandering, it is also well documented that the Cherubims were originally used as a part of Solomon's Temple and the Ark was placed under them, they later became the model for the Cherubims which were attached to the Mercy Seat. I'm not at a location where I can get to my sources, but will see what I can come up with when I am ... ;=) ...


That is what the original looks like. All others are altered copies. The Mercy seat is on the original, not added later as you say. No need to change scripture because of someones depiction/drawing.
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#130  Postby zelph » Wed May 28, 2014 8:11 pm

Whyte Eagle wrote:Not bad LotsaLost ... ;=) ... I know from reading your posts that you are a big believer in the written word as it comes from some of the books you mention, but I'll go one the record and state that not everything you read in those books will turn out to be the truth or even close at best ... this is true of other books as well, especially when it comes to books concerning mines, treasure hunting, prospecting and the like ... I am not wanting to offend anyone, I have all the books as well and have read them ... even did some research on the authors, and discovered something rather bizarre ... most of the related stories in the books, actually came from someone else although the authors would have you believe they were the originators of the tales they printed ... Shaffer is probably the worst of the bunch for doing so, most of the book ~Treasures of the Ancients~ for example, actually came from a manuscript that he did not write, rather let's say, ~borrowed~, without giving credit to the original author ... I can think of a better way to say but do not want to offend others ... I've do have the original manuscript in my library a copy of the one that he ~borrowed~ for the book he wrote, and there is a whole lot more to it than he dared print ... either way, his version can be an interesting read ... but like I said he doesn't have it all ... Boren is a darn good writer, there 's no doubt about that ... but is what he printed in his books true? I suppose that would be up to those who read it ... based on my research, I think he has a couple of points portrayed accurately, unfortunately those points of accuracy do not include what he has printed with regards to the Ark of the Covenant nor the Carre ... he's out of prison now, for a little more than a year, and I would welcome his contribution here on the forum to defend what he has written ...

Now to address a couple of points in your previous post ... first a little bit about the Ark itself, it is not believed that God actually dwelt within the Ark of the Covenant, but rather communicated through it to his choosen people. In other documented history it is clearly stated that this was done through the Mercy Seat which was affixed atop of the Ark of the Covenant ... second the Templars ... some do believe that the Templars brought the Ark of the Covenant to the new world (North America), when in reality, they never found the Ark in the first place .... oh it was on their list of items they were looking for in the old world, but by the time they found the original location where it had been they discovered it had long since been removed and also found good reference to where it may have went ... I'll go on record as saying that they did not bring the Ark to North America, but that they came here looking for it ... they weren't the only ones who came here looking for it either ... I know of at least one other group that sent a task force here to try and find it as well, and there may have been others ...

I'll also go on record claiming that the Native Americans of the American Mid-West had it for a time roughly 400 - 600 years before it again moved, it took a journey and landed in a few locations before finally ending up inside the Carre-Shinob where it remained safely kept for about 325 years and then once again it was moved. Some (like Boren) say it is under the Manti Temple, although I can't prove that particular point, I think it is not. There are, however, few clues which would indicate it is located elsewhere but nothing completely definite as of yet ... I'm fairly confident that the original Ark of the Covenant is in North America though, of that, at least for me, there is no doubt ... ;=)...


Whyte Eagle speaks like Boren.... speculation to the max. There is no hard proof that the AoTC is on the North American continent. Nothing in the BoM that states it was brought here by Lehi and family. The Lord would not allow the sacred records to come into the hand of the Lamanites as stated by Whyte Eagle. Mormon hid up/secured the records as instructed by the Lord.
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Re: bionic bicuspid bustup

Post Number:#131  Postby zelph » Wed May 28, 2014 8:15 pm

Whyte Eagle wrote:Yes I do ... and the story you heard is generally correct ... it was referred to as the ~War Box~ when it was in their possession and even when it changed hands ... that would have been roughly from 350 BC to around 1550 AD ... I'm guessing at the exact dates there, but they should be pretty close ... after 1550 AD it was known by a different name which I'm still working on a correct translation for, it went into cold storage at that point and stayed that way for the next 300 years or so until it was recognized quite by accident in the 19th century it was at this point it left the possession of the traditional Native Americans, by peaceful means I might add, the reason being that those who stood gaurd over it had completely lost the knowledge of exactly what it was and what it truly represented. For them it was more of a blessing than a curse to let it leave their possession ... and frankly, I think they were a little bit intimidated by it, and no longer really wanted to be watching over it ...


Boren is good at stories and so is Whyte Eagle. Quite the imagination the two of them.
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Re: The Ark and Boren

Post Number:#132  Postby zelph » Wed May 28, 2014 8:25 pm

this is good

Whyte Eagle wrote:In answer to MesaBuddy ... and where is the Ark now ... I'll tell you the truth, I've spent a lot of time tracking it down and have been able to follow it along it's journey until it came to rest in the Carre-Shinob ... Once it came to rest the only thing more I have been able to find is that it was removed from there approximately in the year 1858 or so and who it was that actually took it .. .surprisingly enough the care takers of the Carre-Shinob encouraged this person to retrieve it, and it would appear that they were somewhat weary of caring for it and would rather not have it about anymore, maybe due to some of the problems it had caused for them ... once it was taken the trail goes cold and I'm stuck at this point ... act location but I have a strong hunch it is in the Utah wilderness somewhere ... so the search goes on ... ;=) ...


The Lord would not allow the Sacred Records of the BoM to wander around in the wilderness. I can only speculate at this point who is in control of Whyte Eagle at this point in time. Is it Boren and other Treasure Hunter authors???? we can't say for sure. We know for a surety that he has quite the imagination.
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#133  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:17 pm

That is what the original looks like. All others are altered copies. The Mercy seat is on the original, not added later as you say. No need to change scripture because of someones depiction/drawing.


There's no way of knowing exactly what the original Ark of the Covenant looked like down to certain details.

I was pointing out that many of the early renditions (and there are a lot of them) of it were done as to not show the Mercy Seat as part of the Ark originally. The original writings describing the Ark of the Covenant were made many, many years after the events (the Torah, or first five books of the Old Testament) took place ... they were not written real time or at the time the events were occurring, they were written closer to the time that the Ark was making it's way into Jerusalem and were not first hand accounts by7 any means ... I think it's safe to say that the Mercy Seat may not have come into play unto later closer to the time the Ark made it's way into Jerusalem.


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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#134  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:18 pm

The Book of Exodus gives detailed instructions on how the Ark is to be constructed. It is to be 2½ cubits in length, 1½ in breadth, and 1½ in height (as 21⁄2×11⁄2×11⁄2 royal cubits or 1.31×0.79×0.79 m). Then it is to be plated entirely with gold, and a crown or molding of gold is to be put around it. Four rings of gold are to be attached—two on each side—and through these rings staves of shittim-wood overlaid with gold for carrying the Ark are to be inserted; and these are not to be removed. A golden cover, adorned with golden cherubim, is to be placed above the Ark.

In response to the above quote from a version of Exodus (part of the Torah or Pentateuch ) posted by MrJimSFC, I would like to present the following ...

Here is the actual quote from the Old Testament:

And they shall make an ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof.

And thou shalt overlay it with pure gold, within and without shalt thou overlay it, and shalt make upon it a crown of gold round about.

And thou shalt cast four rings of gold for it, and put them in the four corners thereof; and two rings shall be in the one side of it, and two rings in the other side of it.

And thou shalt make staves of shittim wood, and overlay them with gold.

And thou shalt put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, that the ark may be borne with them.

The staves shall be in the rings of the ark: they shall not be taken from it.

And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee. (Exodus 25:10-16)


The following is for reference to what I'm going to post:

One of the most debated issues concerning the study of the Pentateuch is the issue of authorship. Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch was generally accepted until the seventeenth century. At that time a theory concerning the authorship of Genesis and the rest of the Pentateuch called “the documentary hypothesis.” J. Astruc (1753) first suggested the theory that was popularized by G. Wellhausen (1876). According to this theory, Moses did not author the Pentateuch, but rather, it was the product of individuals who lived much later than Moses. These “authors” or more accurately, redactors combined and supplemented earlier documents into the Book of Genesis. The proponents of this hypothesis have identified four major source documents (J, E, D, P).1 The “J” represents the Jahweh tradition (or Yahweh) which is typically dated to about 850 B.C. The “E” represents the Elohistic tradition which is typically dated to around 750 B.C. The “D” represents the Deuteronomic tradition which is dated to about 621 B.C. Finally, the “P” represents the Priestly tradition which is dated to around 570 B.C. The Documentary Hypothesis is generally accepted in the scholarly world today,2 although a number of Evangelicals still affirm Mosaic authorship.


The reason I bring this up is not to discredit the Bible, but rather to layout a possibility that the Mercy Seat wasn't actually part of the original Ark of the Covenant.

If the Pentateuch did not become fully viable until the times indicated in the last quote, those doing the redacting or scribing would possibly have knowledge of the Mercy Seat as being a part of the Ark of the Covenant. I think that the Mercy Seat was not added until near the time or shortly thereafter when the Ark arrived into Jerusalem for a couple of reasons.

1) There are depictions of the Ark of the Covenant being transported during the time the House of Israel were wandering in the wilderness. This of course could have been a simple omission of whoever it was doing the depiction, but there are several of them and I would think it could suggest the possibility that the Ark of the Covenant just might not have had the Mercy Seat on it during that time frame.

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Depiction of the Ark of the Covenant being used in the battle of Jericho, there is no Mercy Seat on it.

2) The Mercy seat, unlike the Ark of the Covenant was made of a solid piece of Gold and not only would have added to the weight they would have had to transport on a daily basis, but also they had just come out of bondage ... would they have any gold whatsoever amongst them? I suppose they could have used the gold that they used to construct the Golden calf, but how big was the Golden calf?

Either way, I think the detailed description of at least of the Mercy seat was added to the text at a later date ...

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A rendition of the Ark of the Covenant portrayed in a scriptural tense within an old text and not having the Mercy Seat on it.

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Here's a depiction from 1894 of the Ark of the Covenant being brought to the Temple, no Mercy Seat

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This rendition of the Ark of the Ark of the Covenant is painted on the wall of a Jewish Catacomb it has no Mercy Seat and dates to 200 AD

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This depiction is from the 1400's and shows the Ark of the Covenant as it crosses the river Jordan
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#135  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:25 pm

Zelph wrote:The Lord would not allow the Sacred Records of the BoM to wander around in the wilderness.


I find it interesting that you feel you are in a position to define the abilities of the Lord, what he can and can't do, or what he would allow or not allow to happen ... didn't the Ark of the Covenant wander in the Wilderness with the House of Israel for 40 or so years? Why couldn't it wander in the wilderness in the New World after it's arrival?

The Jews lost control of it because they were falling away from the Gospel ... couldn't the same thing have happened to those who had it in the New World as well?
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#136  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:29 pm

BTW ... Although you would love for it to be true, I have no connections whatsoever with Boren, never met him and probably never will ... I haven't even read any of his material ...
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#137  Postby zelph » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:32 pm

It never made it here. Simple as that until you prove it's here. I'm not asking you to 'speculate" or give your story based on your treasure hunting agendas.
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#138  Postby zelph » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:33 pm

Whyte Eagle wrote:BTW ... Although you would love for it to be true, I have no connections whatsoever with Boren, never met him and probably never will ... I haven't even read any of his material ...


You quoted from his book. ;=)
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#139  Postby zelph » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:41 pm

Whyte Eagle wrote:BTW ... Although you would love for it to be true, I have no connections whatsoever with Boren, never met him and probably never will ... I haven't even read any of his material ...


Whyte Eagle wrote:An excerpt from the book ~The Gold Of Carre-Shinob~ by Kerry Ross Boren

Chapter 21
The Secret of Carre-Shinob

I HAVE TRIED, IN THIS BOOK, TO REVEAL some unknown secrets about the Lost Rhoades Mines. I have revealed stories of men and mines that never were imagined when Footprints in the Wilderness was published in 1971, or even when it was re-issued with new information appended in 1980. But I reserved the greatest secret for last.

First, however, some clarification is needed. In virtually every account of the mines over the years, the Sacred Mine has been equated with Carre-Shinob, when in fact they are separate in every respect. Indeed, there are two sacred mines-Sacred Mine #1 and Sacred Mine #2. The latter, situated in the upper Rock Creek drainage. we have already discussed. It was likely associated anciently with another sacred site, most probably an Aztec temple.

But Sacred Mine #1 and Carre-Shinob are not associated with Rock Creek. Without exception Carre-Shinob - ~Where the Great Spirit Dwells~ -has always been associated by the Indians with a sacred site north of Whiterocks River, in the area of the upper Yellowstone River drainage. Whenever Caleb Rhoades made an excursion to the Sacred Mine #1, he went first to Whiterocks where he borrowed pack mules from Jimmie Reed and picked up Happy Jack to guard his back trail.



Whyte Eagle, does this post look familiar? ;=) :~d
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#140  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:37 pm

Zelph wrote:You quoted from his book.


I did quote Chapter 21 from one of his book because it was the topic of discussion in the thread being discussed ... I still have no connection to him ...
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#141  Postby Tammahawk » Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:21 am

Well unless the arc changed hands from Sinclair in the 1300's , the Arc is Most likely in a couple of places, When Sinclair sailed to Scotland to avoid an attack on the Templars, he Changed the name of the Templars to the 1st Scottish Rite Masons And left Scotland they Sailed to the Money Pit in Nova scotia then to North America, I know of a site on the East Coast that has the Same markings as Oak Island, So a possibility exists that either of those places could contain this artifact, as well as other holy artifacts. Me personally if I found such a thing I would rebury it, and pretend I never saw it. Unless God himself came to me and said different, crap like this shouldn't be messed with.
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#142  Postby mahalla22 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:18 pm

The AOC could only be safely carried by Levite priests so it makes sense that no one else could mess with it. For that reason it also makes sense that only Levite priests were able to hide the AOC. It also makes sense that it would be easier to alter/change specific details associated with the AOC in world history rather than to actually change the physical location of the AOC.Essene priests of Hebrew/Egyptian origin were very good at using the pesher method (disguising the truth) to cover their tracks.
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#143  Postby mahalla22 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:41 am

Would certainly like to think the AOC is where main stream academia believes it to be but totally do not believe it is in the Middle East. If one does enough Google Earth searches he/she will find it but believing what they see, where they see it is the difficult part. Thus, it will probably remain an enigma forever.
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#144  Postby mrjimsfc » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:26 pm

mahalla22 wrote:If one does enough Google Earth searches he/she will find it .

Since it is supposed to be in some cave (not really visible to satellite imagery), I don't think it can be found that way.
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#145  Postby mahalla22 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:30 am

Mr. Jim,

Yes, I misunderstood the topic of this thread and was referring to the Ark in regards to the Great Flood not the AOC. It would make sense that the AOC was buried deep in the earth or within a cave or cave system and probably would not be visible from Google Earth.
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Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#146  Postby KsTHer » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:32 pm

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