KGC symbols, or Spanish?

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KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#1  Postby kingguter » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:42 pm

I saw this map on another site. I studied the symbols but cant make heads or tails of them. Does anyone know if they are KGC or Spanish and what they could mean? Its from the Twin Springs treasure in Arkansas.

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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#2  Postby mrjimsfc » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:14 am

Right off from the start you can tell that this is not a very old map. The map shows an "old ford across river". Well, Henry Ford didn't start his company until June of 1903! In order for there to be an "old" ford across the river means that the map couldn't have been made util at least the 1920's. I know that we've had a problem with illegal aliens in Arkansas for a long time but I wasn't aware that they were so prevalent in the early 1900's that they even had their own special trails ("Old Spanish Trail" indeed). :kl:
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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#3  Postby Whyte Eagle » Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:16 pm

Nice map kingguter ... to tell you the truth, the map itself looks like neither Spanish nor KGC in my opinion. Although the markings lean towards a Spanish origin. I would think that the images on the top of the map are trees that correspond to the numbered locations on the lower portion of the map ... I know that doesn't help much, but it's interesting that a section of the Spanish Trail is so close to the markers ...
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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#4  Postby Trigace » Sat Sep 14, 2013 3:56 pm

I don't think the point is the age of the map. It obviously was made around 1968. The point is the tree markings that are probably much older. White, I think, is correct in stating that the numbered tree markings at the top correspond to the numbered locations at the bottom. Someone, around 1968 or earlier, found the tree markings and made a map to show where they all were at.
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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#5  Postby kingguter » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:06 pm

So most importantly, any idea what the symbols could mean? The figure of the man is where a dead body was discovered while plowing the area in the 60's.
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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#6  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:41 pm

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In Spanish symbols the "X" is the end of the line usually. Not sure what two "X"s would indicate but maybe used with the two knotches on the trunk between them?

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If this is a snake then it indicates the direction to travel

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This symbol in Spanish is usually found on a rock, or indicates that which you are looking for is under a rock or in a hill

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Turtles are a sure sign of treasure and a complete turtle indicates the direction to go. If the tail is in any position other then straight then the direction of the tail is the way you should go.

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This is typically a directional marker and the extra line which makes it look like an "A" is the distance you should travel ... I'm guessing one league

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This is simply a directional marker ...

As for the rest of the symbols ... <shrugs Shoulders> ... not sure what to make of them ...
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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#7  Postby kingguter » Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:17 pm

Maybe the 2 X's with notches between them represents where they forged across the river? Or perhaps something buried on both sides of the river?
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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#8  Postby Randy Bradford » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:31 pm

mrjimsfc wrote:Right off from the start you can tell that this is not a very old map. The map shows an "old ford across river". Well, Henry Ford didn't start his company until June of 1903! In order for there to be an "old" ford across the river means that the map couldn't have been made util at least the 1920's. I know that we've had a problem with illegal aliens in Arkansas for a long time but I wasn't aware that they were so prevalent in the early 1900's that they even had their own special trails ("Old Spanish Trail" indeed). :kl:


Do you think perhaps the "old ford" combined with the double lines means a ford you use to cross a river, and not a vehicle?
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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#9  Postby Randy Bradford » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:33 pm

Trigace wrote:I don't think the point is the age of the map. It obviously was made around 1968. The point is the tree markings that are probably much older. White, I think, is correct in stating that the numbered tree markings at the top correspond to the numbered locations at the bottom. Someone, around 1968 or earlier, found the tree markings and made a map to show where they all were at.


Just curious, why do you feel the map originated in 1968? What's the significance of the date?
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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#10  Postby Randy Bradford » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:40 pm

kingguter wrote:I saw this map on another site. I studied the symbols but cant make heads or tails of them. Does anyone know if they are KGC or Spanish and what they could mean? Its from the Twin Springs treasure in Arkansas.


Just my opinion, I lean towards Spanish on this one if the symbols are authentic.

KGC Panels tend to be collections of symbols in one area in a very chaotic fashion. The apparent randomness and "messy" quality of KGC panels are a large part of what makes them difficult to decipher. They also have qualities of several symbolic systems simultaneously: Letters, Numbers, Spanish Symbols, Masonic Symbols.

One of the confusing things is that both Spanish and KGC utilize similar symbols, primarily those that are Masonic related. Pirates utilized these same symbols and are often apparent in their flags where things like skulls, crossbones, hourglasses, daggers, and hearts are all prevalent. Not surprisingly, these same symbols are typical of both KGC and Spanish symbolism.

My limited experience is that the Spanish used chains of symbols like this one to lead you from one place to another versus a KG Panel which was designed to be used with a map and an overlay directly and the symbols being used to determine landmarks and areas on a map to "calibrate" the overlay and lead o multiple cache sites in a given area.

Hope this makes sense, my money is on Spanish or someone wanting you to think it was Spanish...
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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#11  Postby mrjimsfc » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:52 am

OK Randy, all joking aside! The map appears to be a loose rendition of a portion of the farm at the end of Polk Road #634. The farm has "cleared land" (probably grass hay or pasture) in sections 14, 15 and 23; Township 4 South, Range 30 West GAM. Tree number 1 appears to be at or near the NE Corner of Section 14, T. 4 S. R. 30 W. GAM. It looks like one of the other numbered trees is near (could be a reference tree) to the quarter corner between sections 14 and 23. You can view the area in Google Maps at 34° 23.768' No., 94° 10.413' W. You can see where the farm road still crosses the river and it's quite possible that there really is an old Ford at the "old ford". I have no idea as to whether the "Old Spanish Trail" came through that valley or not. However, if the surveyor who made the map in 1968 says it did, then it's likely that he was correct. I admire your perspicacity (now there's a two dollar word) regarding the markings on the trees. :kl:
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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#12  Postby Randy Bradford » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:33 am

mrjimsfc wrote: I admire your perspicacity (now there's a two dollar word) regarding the markings on the trees. :kl:


I don't often have to google a word to find out if I was complimented or insulted, so thanks for keeping me on my toes. :)

I've looked at that map 10 times before I realized there was a date on it, might want to reconsider perspicacity in that regard, though you did note it might be limited t my insights on markings.

That's a nice bit of handiwork Jim, your grasp of geography and technology doth far surpass my own.

I for one would like to know more about the bones they found, could provide some clues...

Keep in mind if this is a worked area there's no telling how many trees or rocks with symbols could have been lost over the years.
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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#13  Postby mrjimsfc » Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:34 am

Randy Bradford wrote:I for one would like to know more about the bones they found, could provide some clues...

Keep in mind if this is a worked area there's no telling how many trees or rocks with symbols could have been lost over the years.

Well, let's take these questions in order. The only way a surveyor would know about "bones" would be to observe a small area marked off (by fence?) as a cemetery like you see at 34° 24.011' N., 94° 10.211' W. As to marked trees, rocks, etc. If you're on a trail, moving along at even a moderate pace trying to get from one place to another, all the while worrying about unfriendly natives, you won't spend much time off the trail spending time to mark things up even if (perhaps especially if) you have something important to tell. Because this portion of the valley is prone to inundation in high water events, rocks (other than at the waters edge) are unlikely to be exposed if they're not up on the hillside (did I mention something about going off the trail?). I suspect that symbols marked on trees along the trail pertain to wholly mundane things like, "Fresh water spring", "Secure camp site", "River crossing ahead" and other important things a traveler would need. :~N
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Re: KGC symbols, or Spanish?

Post Number:#14  Postby TabFinder65 » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:34 pm

I live less than 10 miles from those springs and have never been to them as they are on private property. My neighbor and good friend has agreed to secure permission for us to go since the owners are friends of his. He has been there many times in the past.
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