More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#301  Postby Lostaslost » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:48 pm

I have a whole lot of pictures of X's. They seem to be pretty spread out. as for the Aspen I will let all of you argue over it. I know what I read and hopeful the people who write about it know something. No slide got the one I am talking about. As for the church mine I am saying it is the BYM. Now there was others and or at least one other that Tomas was over down in Marysville I think it was. Even in one of the novels about Butch said this.

Take care
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#302  Postby SilenceIsGolden » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:52 pm

Scipio, here in Colorado I know of three old Spanish gold mines right by my town, very rich ones. We know they were Spanish mines because when Americans arrived in Colorado the Mexicans were busily working those mines. Of course they got chased off pretty quick. Since they came under American ownership, those three mines together have produced hundreds of millions of dollars worth of gold and silver at today's prices. Together they probably produced more gold in an average summer than the Spanish got out of Utah the entire time they were there.

We don't know the Spanish names of any of those three mines.

Nobody bothered to ask the Mexicans what they called their mines. The Utes didn't care about the Spanish names and weren't in the habit of mining gold themselves. The Americans certainly didn't care. There is no known record of these amazingly rich gold mines in any archive that I've heard about. They probably didn't even have names, they were quasi-legal operations carried out by people that preferred not to be known.

I doubt very much we know the old names for any Spanish mines in Utah. I only know the names Rhoades and Hathenbruck gave them, and as far as I'm concerned those are the only names they probably ever went by. Interestingly enough Hathenbruck renamed all (three, maybe five) of the claims when Rhoades died.

also as far as I know they're all one mine. Probably not even a mine in any literal sense of the word.
So I'm guessing we aren't on the same wavelength, you and I. My minimalist view runs contrary to just about everything everyone here believes about the Rhoades Mine(s).
I don't know anything anyways, if I did I wouldn't still be working for a living :~O
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#303  Postby SilenceIsGolden » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:06 am

Lost, I think there's probably some twisted aspens out there that were trail markers.
Just not sure the one Scipio posted is one of them. Looks a bit young.
But if it's not manmade I gotta wonder what did that?
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#304  Postby SilenceIsGolden » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:16 am

Sorry, scipio
I ramble.
tl;dr: Nobody here can agree on which names go with which mines, and I personally think all of the names go to one mine. (that isn't a mine).
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#305  Postby EXPLORER71 » Mon May 01, 2017 8:05 am

Wow, this is an old thread, lets see if there is still anyone following it... If this is about "busted myths", then why are the people that have accurate information about the mine still using the word "vein" to describe the pay streak??? Isn't it more of a layer or structure? Just a thought...
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#306  Postby EXPLORER71 » Mon May 01, 2017 8:20 am

I have to agree with you Silence to a point... I think that there is probably more than one mine, however, they all follow the same formation... You know, for a long, long time I didn't realize that "the bishop" was a person. I always thought that when a few on these sites referred to "the bishop", that they were associating the Rhoades mine with the bishop conglomerate formation that runs through the Uinta mountains... Hmmmmmmmm... I think it seemed logical to me because several pictures that I have seen over the years of mine tunnels looked like they were running through a "Conglomerate" material... Any thoughts guys???
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#307  Postby mrjimsfc » Wed May 03, 2017 5:00 pm

I don't think there were any of the geological structures that were named when the Rhoades family were finding mines. If anyone claims that the mines are in any particular "structure", I would have doubts about his information.
"Nobody wants to listen to the voice of reason when there's a good hysteria to be had. Humans are like that."
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#308  Postby sanpete » Wed May 03, 2017 5:12 pm

names, names and more names. The one thing I can say about names in Utah is do not let the government name anything. It does not matter what branch of government they will use there own names. They do not care what the local people have named it. To hell with what you name it they do not care. :~M :~M :~M
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#309  Postby EXPLORER71 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:16 am

I can't believe that NOBODY responded to the "vein structure/layer" comment that I made. You know, you guys that have that kind of information could share it with people on here that are interested and curious. I say that because I'm sure that the Rhoade's mines ARE associated with a certain layer or structure running through the Uinta's, but the entire structure does NOT contain the gold. You could talk about that "layer" without giving any directions, and leave it up to the treasure hunters still interested in the lore something to research and look for. Anybody??? Randy, Silence, Paula, anyone???
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#310  Postby Scipio » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:28 am

Paula?
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#311  Postby sanpete » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:05 am

Scipio come on now you know Paula. She is her mothers daughter.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#312  Postby Scipio » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:43 am

Oh! You mean that Paula.

My bad.
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#313  Postby Scipio » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:57 am

And EXPLORER71,
Everyone from Gary (current owner of the alleged Lost Josephine) to George Thompson have had a theory or two about a vein, structure, stratum, layer or whatever, running through the Utah mountains. Some go so far as to include the Oquirrhs and ranges south to Eureka in the mix as historically, they have all shown to have enormous mineral reserves. But whether that mineral content is derived from one overarching formation stretching through miles of mountains or several formations appearing randomly at various locations is conjecture. Interesting, but still just conjecture. Following the theory could be extremely beneficial but it wouldn't prove it true ... or untrue. It would however, support the notion made here many times, that " the gold is where you find it". If following a large formation, either real or imagined, leads you to that gold, then who cares if the theory or formation are real? Your new Ferrari certainly will be.
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#314  Postby Ray B » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:13 pm

Like many others, I've spent decades reading books about The Mine. Spent another decade reading this forum & other forums. Carefully considered the posters, their background, their research, knowledge, and boots on the ground. 3 years ago I came to conclusion Silence has the correct answer. His is the only conclusion that answers 99% of the multitude of varied questions of the "Mine".

Do others on here agree or disagree with Silence's theory/conclusion? And Why or why not? I think it would be great to hear all the pro & cons. :~8

Hope there will be some worthwhile responses. All the best to everyone of you. :~d
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#315  Postby roughrockxxx » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:01 am

I went back through the posts quite quickly. So what are you saying about silences posts?
Yes, he does seem to make the most sense, but I cant see any real specifics.
On thing I did think about this time a little more. He kept elaborating to the point of what if a mine is not a mine.
He kept talking about a staircase or steps mine. As it went farther in the posts he proposed that what if the gold came from somewhere else
and put in a cave. Somewhere there was a post of his son standing by a long crack in a horizontal rock ledge, with about 3 or so steps a person could make out.
So then he posted the idea of a cave or such that had to be turned into a mine to get the gold out,(like rhoades) that is now mostly caved back in.
kind of follows the idea of another cave or mine with the gold (ancient or Spanish or from Colo white river utes)taken out and moved to somewhere like the crack and put in, showing no indication of mineral or mining.
Somehow rhoades, through maybe an indian , told rhoades of the location, and later he spoke to people saying no one will ever find the location of such gold.

Just kind of an idea.

He still didn't give away any of the specifics at to what area he could be talking about. He kind of alluded to the fact that he was in rock creek in different locations, as he talked about the top of cabin creek, but also talked about areas or spots closer to roads. Also other things like the narrative of posts. The writings of KRB and calab rhoads, and if you had actually been to or knew of some of the areas, you could see they were truthful, but put togeather in a different manner. To tell you the truth, as you can see, his posts really threw me. As did most in this thread. Most everyone was posting as a fishing expedition as a person reads backwords from later to earlier dated posts.
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#316  Postby KsTHer » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:10 am

In following the different threads over the last several years, the Lost Rhoades Mine or mines has/have puzzled me. Some refer to the Lost Rhoades as a mine over in Rock Creek (or elsewhere in that area). Others seem to mention the Lost Josephine as though it is the Lost Rhoades mine (or at least one of the Lost Rhoades mines). I can certainly believe the Josephine could have been on of the Lost Rhoades. With all of the stories and evidence of CBR having covered a very large amount of territory in the Uintah Mountains, there could be quite a number of mines or even cache locations in the area.

I have seen a tree with the date 1895 and CBR initials on it. You cannot read the CBR any more as the aspen bark has distorted over the last ten years. Nearby, another tree once had "oro" carved into its bark has fallen to insect infestation. Now there seems to be a "Sasquatch" nest in the area (if you believe the reports on the shows about Sasquatch hunting in Colorado).

The Rock Creek mine referred to by Silence (and I believe R W Lewis) is one that I have never even looked for. Therefore I can not speak much about it except what I have heard here. If memory serves me correctly, Randy Lewis and Silence have both written about some of the samples to expect about it as being telluride bearing ores.

As to what I have to do when contemplating these things, first I have to try and sort out which mine is which. Things get somewhat confusing.

Lostaslost seemed to be quite sure that the Lost Josephine and the Carre Shinob and the Lost Rhoades were the same mine or mines. In my search, I have decided that they are separate mines. For me, I have to try and compartmentalize each mine in order to make any sense of it all.

In my opinion, the Josephine is a group of mines around Hoyt Peak with Gary's "Glory Hole" being near one of the mines which John Young managed to nearly destroy (see "Of Men and Gold" by Steve Shaffer). With a Roman coin having been found in the Glory Hole, evidence speaks of early exploration which ties it in with some very confusing stories of OOPArts and a past which we can only guess or hypothesize about. Did Caleb B Rhoades know of one or more mines around Hoyt Peak? I think he did. (One can surmise that if Caleb was followed or suspected that he was followed each time he went to retrieve gold at the Sacred Mine, Lost Rhoades Mine or any number of mines he was aware of, he would have taken a circuitous route to any one of the mines to avoid detection by his pursuers. He would have done so especially when going to the closest mines to Rhoades Valley.

I have my own theory of the main location of the Lost Josephine. Do I have any proof? Nothing that proves anything at all. There is evidence by way of signs and symbols on trees. There are stones which have been modified to be pointers and other stones which appear to have been modified to look like hearts. These are stones which are "out of place" in their locations. There are also other clues which coincide with some of the stories written in the treasure magazines. One of the symbols marked on a quaking aspen tree looks like it could be a coat of arms which would date to the early 1800s. The history of the area also gives subtle clues to the treasure hunter who digs deeper into the history of the area.

As I said before, I have never looked for what I consider the Lost Rhoades Mine. I do tend to agree with Silence as I believe he has added information which defines a mine with little ambiguity. He places it in the Rock Creek area which fits for the stories. I believe Silence is not looking for the mine to do any mining. Being a member (by marriage) in the Rhoades family, he simply wants to understand the past history of his family. I believe Silence has found what he is searching for... a connection to the past with a personal interest.
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#317  Postby SilenceIsGolden » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:19 am

roughrockxxx wrote:Most everyone was posting as a fishing expedition as a person reads backwords from later to earlier dated posts.


Truth.
I was also fishing for very specific information. Not the location of the mine as I believe I already possess that info.
I needed to know how much Randy Lewis and Lost knew about it. What I learned here was satisfactory. It concluded my search.
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#318  Postby SilenceIsGolden » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:11 pm

A person might think I needed to know what others knew about the mine either to understand it better myself, or to prevent others from finding it. Neither prospect was my goal. I did not and do not intend to stop Randy or Lost or anyone else from finding the Rhoades Mine. Nor do I intend to lead anyone directly to it. I also don't require further information about the mine, I have inspected it myself and I tend to keep my own counsel on this and most other matters.

My goal was very simply corroboration of 'secret' (i.e. unpublished) information I was given a very long time ago. Unfortunately I cannot ask about secrets in a public forum, they would instantly cease to be secrets. Neither can I privately ask individuals if they are aware of certain secrets because they will of course answer in the affirmative to gain more information, or if answering in the negative will still have gained some information regarding the secret. These outcomes are undesirable when the goal is to keep the secret, but they also defeat my purpose- corroboration. I cannot get independent corroboration of a secret if I tell everyone what it is. At best I will have contaminated any external authority against which I might measure the veracity of the information- I would always have to wonder if they actually and independently knew the secret before I told it to them, or if all I'm getting is my own secret reflected back to me.

Regarding the 'secret' information I have, I was able to determine many years back that it had never been published in books or newspapers. I was also able to know that it predates any book on the Rhoades Mines as the information was being used by some of the Rhoades family to search for the gold as early as the 1920's and 30's. But the secret nature of the information or its verifiable age don't necessarily make it true. I consider most of the information out there to be myths built around misunderstandings, and there's no particular reason to exempt the things Caleb's descendants believe just because it's them believing it. Caleb's kids and grandkids might be a solid source of information about the Rhoades Mine or they might not. Everyone makes mistakes. I wanted outside corroboration.

I am well aware that Randy Lewis had at least a passing interest in the area indicated by the Rhoades family's 'secrets,' as I had personally seen him very near there some years before joining this forum. I was curious if his interest in the area was just a passing one or if he had specific information leading him there, as I did. I further wondered if that specific information was the same as the information the Rhoades family possesses, and if it had led him to the mine. In addition to my seemingly chance spotting of Mr. Lewis in my area of interest, there were some intriguing comments he made about the location of the "Mirror Lake" gunfight. He hinted that it may have taken place somewhere else, a suggestion that lines up very well with things I had been told.

The conclusions I reached from my fishing expeditions were satisfactory, I did gain the corroboration I was seeking. I posted pictures of the Lost Rhoades Mine and found that nobody here recognized them at that time. Meaning nobody had been to the exact location, despite being in the right general area often enough. I found that Randy was indeed led to that area by specific information, and presumably it is the same information that brought me there. This tends to verify the information- not only is it old enough to have been handed down by both the Rhoades and Hathenbruck descendants, it is presumably true since both families at one point had the capacity to test it. Indeed, some of the things Randy has passed on both here and in books can ONLY BE KNOWN BY SOMEONE THAT HAS VISITED THE MINE SITE.

This was and still is sufficient proof in my opinion that the mine was a real site, and that members of both the Rhoades and Lewis families preserve accurate information regarding the nature and location of the site. The wise observer would say, "Tim, the only proof you need is the gold." Next the wise observer may realize that if I'm seeking outside corroboration it can only be because I have not found the gold where the Rhoades family says it should be. This is obvious. I let the wise reader draw their own conclusions, I have already drawn mine.
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#319  Postby SilenceIsGolden » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:40 pm

Regarding specifics, I feel that numerous elements of the story have been confirmed to my satisfaction:
The mine(s) are real locations on this Earth, and those locations can be found.
The mine(s) are located in a discrete and contiguous geological formation that is both unique and easily observed once known.
The mine(s) are not natural ore bodies, though they could be ancient placers.
There is sufficient evidence of ancient Spanish or Mexican work in the immediate area in the form of stone markers of sorts only employed by the Spanish or those that copied them.
Tree markings are extremely common in the area, including trail markers, seemingly random symbols, and apparent native bark stripping. Some of these markings are probably ancient.
Interest in the location has left artifacts at the site and surroundings ranging from the verifiably ancient to the relatively modern. I find no evidence that can be ascribed to any particular person at or near the site.
There is no obvious gold present on the site.

I find this all fairly interesting. My failure to find gold at the location would lead me to believe either the gold was never real or it has been removed. However if the gold wasn't real that doesn't explain the seeming Spanish/Mexican interest in the area. In fact very little would explain their presence so far North aside from gold, despite the general lack of the stuff in the central Uintas. I am content to sit home pondering the problem though, while others closer to the mystery both in knowledge and geography continue to seek more information. I have a feeling there is some meat to this myth, and in time perhaps someone will discover what (or where) that is exactly.
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#320  Postby SilenceIsGolden » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:53 pm

I don't encourage any one of you to follow my seeming lead though, unless you wish to find what I have.
Which is apparently nothing.
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#321  Postby roughrockxxx » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:20 pm

like your last posts.
I apolize for calling it a fishing expedition. I like your calling, "seeking outside corroboration" better, since that was what you were trying to do.
Seems like others that posted were trying to convince you they had information that they thought would intice you to trade info they could use.
I heard that lostaslost died about a year ago. Some others on the forum did visit his sight with him on the north slope and stated that they couldn't really tell if a mine was where he stated or not, since the area had been blown up by the state mine closure effort, or others.
He was fun to read.

Randy lewis had lots of connections it seems, and did do a lot of exploring on his own, as his posts clearly show over the years.

Like your honesty on your conclusions. Still, and I know others,would like to hear or read more of your observations, since seem to be backed with research and field work.
As well as written well, for really such a complicated and confusion subject as the lost rhoades mines and the Mexican, Spanish into the uintahs.

Heres an you tube video that terry carter recorded just reciently that you might like on an interview with a person who was involved with the dig on treasure hill on lower rock creek. He has others that are really pretty good also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQD-bQljTdE&t=1s
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#322  Postby SilenceIsGolden » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:25 pm

No need to apologize, you were right. I was agreeing with you.
I'm sorry to hear about Lost. I'm glad he got to show people his spot, and I'm glad they saw he was telling the truth.

I don't have anything to add to my story really. I was meaning to get back and go over the spot one more time to make sure I didn't miss anything, but I never made it. I haven't been out there in over five years now. I made plans to go in the fall of last year but my kid couldn't get off from work so we skipped it. My own work occupies me most of the year. And until I'm certain there's nothing there I'm not keen on telling much more about it. I'm about 90% certain there's nothing there, but I do want to clear up that last 10% of uncertainty unless someone else has found the spot and done the work for me.

Basically I have searched the obvious areas using eyeballs and a metal detector, now I just need to search the less obvious areas using a pinpointer probe and a gold pan. Which shouldn't take more than a day or two but I haven't done it both because I've been extremely busy and also because I'm pretty sure there's nothing there.
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#323  Postby SilenceIsGolden » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:07 am

I think the easiest way to make sense of the whole thing is to deny it, right?

Try this narrative on for size:
Thomas Rhoades makes a huge fuss about donating a pile of gold he got in California. The good people of Utah want to believe that their land is just as rich in natural resources as California or any other place, so over time they change the story of Rhoades' donation to a SECRET MINE in Utah. We can be fairly sure that Thomas wasn't getting gold from any secret mines in Utah, he made such a huge fuss about donating the California gold there's no way he could keep Utah gold a secret. I mean he literally showed that Cali gold to everyone he met between Sutter's Mill and Salt Lake.

Maybe his son Caleb comes to believe in the story of his dad's supposed gold mine, or maybe he just likes to prospect. Either way he goes prospecting way too often, and in his numerous and lengthy absences his wife starts dating someone else. He divorces her and loses his kids in the process. She happens to be the sister of his best friends, and perhaps they and others begin to think maybe Caleb was neglecting his wife and kids. Word might even be whispered that he ABANDONED them. Caleb doesn't want even a little of the blame for his wife's infidelity so he makes up a story that he was on SECRET CHURCH BUSINESS. This is a convenient alibi because nobody will question what exactly that business was, and it relieves Caleb of any responsibility or blame for his wife leaving him. Everyone knows he was off prospecting, so everyone assumes he was carrying on his dad's work of GETTING GOLD FOR THE CHURCH from a SECRET MINE. Caleb neither confirms nor denies these rumors, mostly because if he pretends they're true the higher-ups in the church will deny it.

Conveniently when the only person that could deny his story dies, Caleb goes public and says the rumors were true all along- He was charged with a secret mission to get gold for the church. Not only that but with the passing of Walker and Young that gold now belonged to him. Since the rumors say he swore not to reveal the location of the SECRET MINE, he pretends there's actually SEVERAL mines that he knows of, all of them unfathomably rich. Also he's going to lease them from the Utes because they belong to him. But they're conveniently located on the Reservation where nobody can check them out to verify his story, and he can't actually profit from them. Again, very conveniently, this whole story gives him an excuse for neglecting his wife and kids at a time when he's actually trying to reconcile with his children. It's also a nice slap in the fact to his ex-wife who left him while he was off prospecting. I mean can you imagine? Your girl leaves you while you're out prospecting, what could be a better revenge than if your prospecting paid off huge? Luckily he manages to die before he has to put up or shut up, and nobody ever learns that his "mines" were probably a worthless hole in the ground he tossed a few pounds of good Colorado or California gold into by way of salting a mine.


This nicely explains the whole darn story, beginning to end. The only problem with it is it doesn't appear to be true.
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#324  Postby SilenceIsGolden » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:26 am

The problem with that neat little narrative is that if a person goes and finds Caleb's mine they will also find within a few hundred feet of it several Spanish monuments and signs, some of which are verifiably ancient. These monuments are arranged in such a way as to point out the mine.

The age of the monuments being apparent, there is only a question of their Spanish origin. Strangely enough they are built and arranged in manners found in Kenworthy's book on treasure signs & etc. This makes it highly unlikely in my opinion that these monuments were erected by Utes or cowboys or shepherds or Caleb Rhoades or treasure hunters or much of anyone else who isn't a Spanish or Mexican miner. Because Kenworthy's book didn't exist when these monuments were placed, and it's safe to assume the esoteric methods used by the Spanish to mark mine and treasure sites weren't common knowledge among the Indians and Mormons back in the day.

And since I don't expect Spanish or Mexican miners went out of their way to mark an IMAGINARY MINE made up and salted by CALEB RHOADES, I have to conclude that the stories of the gold as told by Rhoades & Boren, Randy Lewis and Bill Rhoades, are closer to the truth. There does indeed appear to be a Rhoades Mine, and it does indeed appear to have started life as a Spanish or Mexican mine or treasure cache. And if this seemingly absurd situation may be true, who knows what other aspects of the tale might be as well? Some people undoubtedly do.
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Re: More myths about the Lost Rhoades mines busted

Post Number:#325  Postby SilenceIsGolden » Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:47 am

Regarding the markers
NONE are present on the MINE SITE
TWO can be found directly above the mine, RIDING THE SPANISH SADDLE
One is the MESA, and it leans to the MINE.
Second is the SUN SIGN, and it is obscured by lichen

Having found the MARKERS and THE MINE, one draws a line between them
From here if there were a TRIANGLE there should be another marker AFIELD
Go to the THIRD POINT of the triangle to find the LAST MARKER (the trail guides you)
You'll know it when you see it, it is situated just as the first
Neither marker can be moved, they're BEARS of STONE, set in the SPANISH STYLE

These things I have personally seen, and if someone has followed me they will certainly see them too
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