Let the truth be known...

Discussion of the ever elusive location we've come to know as Carre-Shinob ... is it fact or legend?

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#376  Postby Morningstar » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:07 pm

Gohot,

Thanks for stirring the kettle, we need some conversation around here.

I am sad to say that both Whyte Eagle and Lostaslost have passed on.
~Sakari Morningstar
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#377  Postby Gohot » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:55 pm

You know, on another topic here on Ancient Lost Treasures, Lostaslost was having a discussion I think with sanpet...... ? and was talking of being near the Carrie in a snow storm with his son. About how he wanted his 100 pounds and a few more topics. I just wonder if his son carried on with the Carrie legend and if he might take over where his dad left off?

It seems a quiet place around here as of late, and with Lostaslost and Whyte Eagle gone, a lot of knowledge lost. The colorful world of all treasure hunters inspires the curiosity in all of us, weather around a camp fire or in an easy chair. I have always found the Carrie and The Kokoweef of great interest, and hope that they might one day be explored and shown despite all those who thought them only fables and the rants of mad men. You could throw in the Lost Dutchman for good measure too.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#378  Postby lindseynicole010 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:49 am

thanks
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#379  Postby TecumsehMurray2017 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:08 am

Good Evening.. I am the Grandson of Chunky Murray.. I have a very accurate "guess" on what the meaning of Carre ShinOb means.. actually a fact on what it means.. Not to many Utes speak the Ute language, and most of what they do know is in fact a different dialect of the Ute/Shoshone Language.. There is an old Ute word which is Kahree or Kahre and it means "Here/This Spot" and ShinOb means the Great Spirit/Creator/Father.. ShinOb also means Wolf(Gray Wolf) which used to travel in the Upper Mountains and Plains.. and in the Ute/Shoshone/Paiute creation story the Creator is a Wolf Named Sinauf/Sinawav/Sinahv.. If you know certain things.. it roughly or exactly translates to "The Place where the Creator Dwells" or "Here is the Great Spirit"/"The Great Spirit is Here".. the caves are Sacred.. they are burial grounds and holy places. They were and are still to this day protected by the Medicine Men that have protected it for hundreds of years. Their power is in the forest, the ground, the sky, and where the Ancestors are buried. I wouldn't go in or near the mine if it made me the richest man on the planet, gave me all the knowledge of the universe, or gave me super powers. It is a Sacred place and is important to our Culture. It will always be protected... ALSO I don't think the word Carrie has anything to do with the French.. there are hundreds of languages around the world and some have words that mean the same things.. and some mean different things.. for example.. in the Inuit language Navashmuh is the rounded knife they use to cut their meat.. in the Ute language (Northern Dialect) Navashmuh means "Give/Give me that".. just my thoughts maybe I cleared up some of the confusion.. If you ever want to cat or talk about some things you are wondering about.. feel free to email me at tecumsehmurray16@gmail.com tuhrgrayahk/huuwihu/thank you
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#380  Postby Gohot » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:04 am

Interesting information... It sounds you are versed in Lore and Legend of the Ute's. Do you believe in this Carre Shinob Cave/Holy Place ?
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#381  Postby Gohot » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:05 am

What I'm getting at, is, have eyes seen this Carre in our lifetimes ? Some amazing things have come to light recently http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5334476/ns/te ... aled-utah/ Discoveries still occurring. I don't think if there existed a Carre, that its location should be known, or photographed...... though being a photographer, oh what a wonder that would be to document. Still, it's Sacred Ground, and maybe the residence of the Ark or a place to reach God from...?
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#382  Postby Gohot » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:23 pm

Let me restate that.... Lostaslost claimed to have been at least to the entrance, and as I recall that was all. It was behind a bolder and then later said it had been dynamited to close and camouflage the landmarks some. But Who has seen ? it has to exist to be seen, a paradox or leap of faith? I pine for the old days when everybody was still with the living... Some good stories and lively discussion. :~d
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#383  Postby sanpete » Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:02 pm

Gohot I think that the only people who have seen the cave in the last 1000 years are the Ute chiefs and that no white man has ever seen it. Sanpete
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#384  Postby mahalla22 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:07 am

I have recently been reading a book by Robert Feather (Mystery of the Copper Scroll of Qumran - The Essene Record of the Treasure of Akhenaten) and according to his research the ancient priests buried their treasure in units of measure called talents and they wrote as "kkryn". Neb, nub or nab referred phonetically to their word for "gold". Shi, shin, XI or sin referred to the number 2 or 11. Seems much more than just a coincidence to me. It would make sense that the name Carrie Shinob (if one believes there is the possibility ancient Essenes were in America) could refer to a location or district where an x-amount of talents of gold were buried. Also, they often buried their treasure in the location of sacred tombs.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#385  Postby Trigace » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:10 am

Gohot wrote:Let me restate that.... Lostaslost claimed to have been at least to the entrance, and as I recall that was all. It was behind a bolder and then later said it had been dynamited to close and camouflage the landmarks some. But Who has seen ? it has to exist to be seen, a paradox or leap of faith? I pine for the old days when everybody was still with the living... Some good stories and lively discussion. :~d


Lostaslost took my brother and I to his "Carrie" mine two or three years before he passed away. He went in on a horse. We hiked separately but met him at a lake near the mine. He had to carry an oxygen tank with him. When we got to where he had previously found the Carrie there was still snow covering the location. He would not go any closer than within several hundred feet of the mine (cave). My brother and I hiked to the location and across the snow but could find nothing. Lostaslost was very serious about what he had seen and experienced there. He was still afraid that the Indians were still watching the site and feared for his life while we were there. He wasn't sure if it had been dynamited after his first visit but he strongly suspected that it had been. He brought up new shovels he had purchased so we could dig out the entrance if necessary. He also brought up two other guys with him so there were 5 of us total. We had all promised to not divulge the location of the mine.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#386  Postby Gohot » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:57 pm

Do you think you will ever go back ? Will your curiosity get the best of you. or fear? I can appreciate it's value to the Utes as a sacred site and their wish to have it remain a secret.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#387  Postby mrjimsfc » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:30 pm

Trig: I have seen that you are a hiking machine! It's interesting that only you of the four have said anything about the trip with Lostaslost. As I understand from the posts that "Lost" put on this site, the rocks at the carrie site were very large. They should have been sticking up out of the snow and "Lost" would have been able to give you directions to nearly the exact spot he remembered. Did you see any sings of explosives having been used? The marks are quite obvious for years after explosives have been used and can be readily discerned. You're the type of person who would have noticed something like that. You would have also noticed if explosive marks were not present. It would be interesting to hear/read your opinion of the benefits/waste of going back.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#388  Postby Trigace » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:15 am

mrjimsfc wrote:Trig: I have seen that you are a hiking machine! It's interesting that only you of the four have said anything about the trip with Lostaslost. As I understand from the posts that "Lost" put on this site, the rocks at the carrie site were very large. They should have been sticking up out of the snow and "Lost" would have been able to give you directions to nearly the exact spot he remembered. Did you see any sings of explosives having been used? The marks are quite obvious for years after explosives have been used and can be readily discerned. You're the type of person who would have noticed something like that. You would have also noticed if explosive marks were not present. It would be interesting to hear/read your opinion of the benefits/waste of going back.


Gohot-
I have no fear of going back there. When we went in with Billy (Lostaslost) my brother and I walked all over the spot where Billy pointed out was the mine. Billy was very fearful and would not even go close to the spot.

mrjimsfc- There was very little snow on the ground where it was relatively flat but at the mine the terrain is very rocky and nearly a vertical cliff of solid and loose boulders. Snow had drifted into the bouldery ledge area to a depth that covered most of the huge boulders. My brother and I walked back and forth several times over the hard packed snow on the steep slope while Billy and his other 2 friends watched from a distance. We even hiked all around the area to other similar spots thinking maybe Billy had not remembered the right location. But we found no signs of a cave or of any explosive actions. We even looked for the vent hole that Billy had said was above the cave entrance but found nothing on top.

I've at times wondered if what Billy saw was actually in a dream he may have had while camping up there. It's strange because he definitely believed what he told everyone about the cave.

I have never gone back to the area but my brother did a year or two later. He said the snow was gone at the time but he still couldn't find anything that could relate to a cave entrance. I personally doubt that the Indians used explosives to hide the entrance. That is just something that Billy assumed would happen after they supposedly knew that he had discovered the site. Billy never said he actually saw any Indians when he was at the entrance. He just got so excited about what he saw in the cave and thinking about how the Indians protected their sacred sites that I think he got paranoid and kinda freaked out in that lightning storm.

The only way I'd go back there would be on horses. It's over 7 miles one way in to there and it's not easy. But I would like to make another trip just to see for myself the spot without any snow on it. This location is so remote that it is highly unlikely that Indians would be watching it on a regular basis. My brother has been going into this area alone on foot for many years, even before we went in with Billy. I can't walk half as far as him anymore. I must be getting old.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#389  Postby Gohot » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:16 am

Well I'd like to keep this alive, even if only from home, I am like Lostaslost, older and unable to traverse the terrain without the aid of cane(s) so my mobility suks. I was able to spend most of my early life exploring and finding sites, pottery and remains. Always I contacted this Aged Museum Curator to Photograph, document and if warranted, remove to the Museum. So I'm not too sad at being unable to continue exploring as I did. I never did it for gain, but rather to benefit the Native American area which I explored. All of it was in Southern California in the Aguanga-Anza-Pala area. My finds residing in the Temecula Museum.

Still, the thought of stepping into something so magnificent is .......... frankly, unsettling.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#390  Postby mrjimsfc » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:00 pm

I regard it highly unlikely that the Indians would use explosives to damage/hide "their" sacred cave. If "Lost" couldn't see the boulders because of deep snow, then it would have been extremely difficult to find the place he was looking for. I wonder if you or your brother felt the fear, anxiety and trepidation felt by "Lost" while you were searching the area.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#391  Postby KsTHer » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:00 pm

Billy was a different kind of guy, but he gave me a few book titles to look up on Amazon. Once I got to reading a few of them, I had a deeper appreciation for Billy and his insight on these things. I can understand his trepidation at going back up there too. He was also dealing with health issues for a considerable length of time which could have been a factor. We may never know for sure. I believe he truly believed that he saw what he related here on the forum. The mountains have changed considerably in some areas even in the short time (approximately 10 years) that I have been hunting in the Uintah Mountains.

I don't know about you guys, but I miss Lostaslost. Things haven't been the same without him here on the forum.

As for most of us here still posting on the forum, we are all getting older... my self included. At 59, I can't get around all that well either.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#392  Postby Trigace » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:34 am

mrjimsfc wrote:I regard it highly unlikely that the Indians would use explosives to damage/hide "their" sacred cave. If "Lost" couldn't see the boulders because of deep snow, then it would have been extremely difficult to find the place he was looking for. I wonder if you or your brother felt the fear, anxiety and trepidation felt by "Lost" while you were searching the area.


I agree about the explosives. But I think that Billy assumed that because the Indians had seen him at the cave entrance that they would have to seal it off to prevent him from coming back later and going in the cave. Supposedly the dynamite would only cover the entrance and not damage any of the interior of the cave.

Billy had certain landmarks he described to us as we got close to the cave. He described a little ridgeline that came out of the main ledge area where the cave was at. It was the ridge that he ran down in the thunderstorm as he was fleeing for his life (he thought.) There were also a couple of nearby ponds or lakes that he described nearby. But sometimes your memory plays tricks on you when you are in the mountains and in a panic mode. All the things he described are there and he could have seen these things as he fled the area but possibly he forgot that he was really up or over a little bit further than he remembered when he left the entrance.

Neither my brother nor I felt the fear that Billy felt. We could tell obviously that he had a great fear and thought that Indians were definitely watching us. He had told each of us to bring guns with us to defend against the Indians if need be. Billy had brought a rifle and my brother and I both had pistols. I don't remember what the other two guys had, probably pistols. My brother and I have done a lot of mountain hiking and there aren't too many things that bother us. It just didn't seem logical that the Indians would be guarding the area so far from anything. They would have had to have a permanent campsite or cabin somewhere in the area which is not impossible but wasn't evident.

I miss Billy too. He was different. He wasn't afraid to express his opinion even if it went against everyone else. I showed him some places he was interested in and he showed me places I was interested in. My brother and I have been in his home in Evanston and seen some of his trophy mounts and a lot of his photos of his search areas.

KsTHer- You aren't getting old yet. You're still a kid. I'm 74, about the same age as Billy would have been, as I recall.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#393  Postby KsTHer » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:58 am

Trigace,

I will agree with you about my age, but there is a saying... (if only I can remember how it goes) something along the lines about taking care of yourself and ending up going out in a pristine body or coming in sliding headfirst and saying, "Whew! What a ride!!"

My life would be more of the "Whew! What a ride!!" response.

In the last few years, I have worked more overtime than I should have probably. (approx. 1500 hours in 2015, a little over 1100 hours in 2014 and roughly 800 - 900 hours in 2013) Couple that with a few health issues and I need to regroup to say the least.

Hitting a Chevy Silverado broadside at 55MPH when a (23 year old) kid turned left in front of me while heading home on my motorcycle didn't help matters (back in 2008). All in all, I feel that I am doing okay considering the alternative outcome to that one.

I have a lot to live for. Are you interested in opening up a cache?
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#394  Postby Gohot » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:39 am

I think there has been some sense that the Carre Shinob would be free for the discovering. And the Injun thing, a cheap deterrent using superstition in their favor as a Legend. An easily available tactic to keep intruders away that cost nothing and is self perpetuating.

Just suppose for a minute this Carre is Sacred... And a Holy Site... And under the Creator/God's protection. God would have no problem exacting judgment or keeping it hidden from the eyes of Man, except for those (Holy men/priests) ordained to protect and serve the site.

That brings this clip to mind in Raiders of the Lost Ark .....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcR9k8o4I0w&t=21s

It all comes down to curiosity and faith. If it exists, and is a Holy site, then that should be respected and honored.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#395  Postby sanpete » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:45 am

KsTHer I think that what you just posted is one of the best and truthfull posts on this site. I have thought this for a long time. I have always thought that the man up above is going to be the one who will guide the person to that place when he wants it to be located.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#396  Postby sanpete » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:08 pm

The post above should be to gohot
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#397  Postby Trigace » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:42 am

KsTHer wrote:Trigace,

I will agree with you about my age, but there is a saying... (if only I can remember how it goes) something along the lines about taking care of yourself and ending up going out in a pristine body or coming in sliding headfirst and saying, "Whew! What a ride!!"

My life would be more of the "Whew! What a ride!!" response.

In the last few years, I have worked more overtime than I should have probably. (approx. 1500 hours in 2015, a little over 1100 hours in 2014 and roughly 800 - 900 hours in 2013) Couple that with a few health issues and I need to regroup to say the least.

Hitting a Chevy Silverado broadside at 55MPH when a (23 year old) kid turned left in front of me while heading home on my motorcycle didn't help matters (back in 2008). All in all, I feel that I am doing okay considering the alternative outcome to that one.

I have a lot to live for. Are you interested in opening up a cache?


KsTHer-
I've had a few rough rides myself. Like a knee replacement and another one needed. But I've had it pretty easy as far as work goes the past few years. I retired early from the Forest Service so have been living on a minimal income ever since. But I have no debts and have enough to just get by. I have plenty of time to do the things I want, except for the expensive things. Having an ATV has been one of the most enjoyable things I do.

Am I interested in opening up a cache? Yes, of course! To what are you referring?
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#398  Postby KsTHer » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:01 pm

Trigace,

Actually I prefer not to say just yet. I can say, however, that you have a PM in your inbox.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#399  Postby mrjimsfc » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:31 pm

KS and Trig: You guys be careful about doing anything with opening anything! We have an unfriendly situation with government bureaucracies who would claim anything and all that you might find as well as put you in prison for finding it.
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Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#400  Postby KsTHer » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:49 pm

Understood, Mrjimsfc.

I have no intentions of doing anything illegal. If I do anything at all, it will be above board.

It will take time to set up, but I think it can be done.

So... you are interested too, huh? LOL

Look for a PM.
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