Let the truth be known...

Discussion of the ever elusive location we've come to know as Carre-Shinob ... is it fact or legend?

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#351  Postby Randy Bradford » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:32 am

zelph wrote:Our God is a loving God not one that would have the AOC to do harm to anyone. Think logically ;=)
)


You might want to familiarize yourself with the phrase "Ark Steadying"
User avatar
Randy Bradford
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#352  Postby Whyte Eagle » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:00 pm

Zelph wrote:It's humorous to know that there are those that think the AOC would be kept inside a cave with the likes of Chief Walkara and his ancestors. We have to remember that Walkara wanted 2 youth caged at his grave site to watch over it till they died.......yikes.


I can see how it would be humorous to someone like yourself since you seem to be unable to piece together the reasons to why the Ark of the Covenant would have been at Carre-Shinob to begin with. So to stimulate your memory of the previous discussions concerning the Ark of the Covenant and the timeline of the Ark of the Covenant when made it made it's way to Carre-Shinob, the Ark of the Covenant arrived there in the mid 1500's, about 300 years prior to Wakara's death and placement there ... the only reason that Walkara and the Ark came to be in the same location is because it was the only location in the are used by the indigenous people to keep things that were sacred or needed to be kept secure, other than that there is no link whatsoever between Walkara and the Ark of the Covenant.

As for the story of the two live children placed with Walkara's dead body, from our present day perspective it is a tragic and hideous event, of that there is no doubt ... but if viewed from the perspective of the tribe at that time it would have had made sense to them in their fallen state ... again I'm not condoning the action ... The two children placed with Walkara's body were slaves that had been taken from another tribe and they believed that the crying and wailing of the suffering children would ward off the evil spirits ... it was a very sad evil thing to do and very tragic in my view ...
Image
User avatar
Whyte Eagle
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8447
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Western US

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#353  Postby Randy Bradford » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:37 pm

Whyte Eagle wrote:
Zelph wrote:It's humorous to know that there are those that think the AOC would be kept inside a cave with the likes of Chief Walkara and his ancestors. We have to remember that Walkara wanted 2 youth caged at his grave site to watch over it till they died.......yikes.


I can see how it would be humorous to someone like yourself since you seem to be unable to piece together the reasons to why the Ark of the Covenant would have been at Carre-Shinob to begin with. So to stimulate your memory of the previous discussions concerning the Ark of the Covenant and the timeline of the Ark of the Covenant when made it made it's way to Carre-Shinob, the Ark of the Covenant arrived there in the mid 1500's, about 300 years prior to Wakara's death and placement there ... the only reason that Walkara and the Ark came to be in the same location is because it was the only location in the are used by the indigenous people to keep things that were sacred or needed to be kept secure, other than that there is no link whatsoever between Walkara and the Ark of the Covenant.

As for the story of the two live children placed with Walkara's dead body, from our present day perspective it is a tragic and hideous event, of that there is no doubt ... but if viewed from the perspective of the tribe at that time it would have had made sense to them in their fallen state ... again I'm not condoning the action ... The two children placed with Walkara's body were slaves that had been taken from another tribe and they believed that the crying and wailing of the suffering children would ward off the evil spirits ... it was a very sad evil thing to do and very tragic in my view ...



Whyte, perhaps you guys should do a presentaiton on the Ark. Frankly, I was always under the impression that if it had came to the Americas it had come with Lehi and his children. I was under the impression that when Nephi and co. went back to get the Brass Plates that perhaps they recovered the Ark as well.
User avatar
Randy Bradford
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#354  Postby Morningstar » Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:10 pm

There is also the possibility that it came with Mulek. There is much more to that story than meets the eye.
~Sakari Morningstar
User avatar
Morningstar
Site Admin
 
Posts: 244
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:06 pm

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#355  Postby zelph » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:53 pm

Randy Bradford wrote:
zelph wrote:Our God is a loving God not one that would have the AOC to do harm to anyone. Think logically ;=)
)


You might want to familiarize yourself with the phrase "Ark Steadying"


Thank you!

D&C 85:8. What Does It Mean to “Steady the Ark of God”?

This phrase refers to an incident during the reign of King David in ancient Israel. The Philistines had captured the ark of the covenant in battle but returned it when they were struck by plagues (see 1 Samuel 4–6). David and the people later brought the ark to Jerusalem in an ox cart, driven by Uzzah and Ahio. “And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error, and there he died by the ark of God” (2 Samuel 6:6–7; see vv. 1–11). The ark was the symbol of God’s presence, His glory and majesty. When first given to Israel, the ark was placed in the Holy of Holies in the tabernacle, and not even the priest was allowed to approach it. Only the high priest, a type of Christ, could approach it, and then only after going through an elaborate ritual of personal cleansing and propitiation for his sins. The scriptures teach that no unclean thing can dwell in God’s presence (see Moses 6:57). His presence is like a consuming fire (see Hebrews 12:29). Those who bear the vessels of the Lord must be clean (see D&C 133:5).

However well-meaning Uzzah’s intentions, he approached casually what could only be approached under the strictest conditions. He had no faith in God’s power. He assumed that the ark was in danger, forgetting that it was the physical symbol of the God who has all power. We cannot presume to save God and His kingdom through our own efforts.

“Uzzah’s offence consisted in the fact that he had touched the ark with profane feelings, although with good intentions, namely to prevent its rolling over and falling from the cart. Touching the ark, the throne of the divine glory and visible pledge of the invisible presence of the Lord, was a violation of the majesty of the holy God. ‘Uzzah was therefore a type of all who with good intentions, humanly speaking, yet with unsanctified minds, interfere in the affairs of the kingdom of God, from the notion that they are in danger, and with the hope of saving them’ (O.V. Gerlach).” (Keil and Delitzsch, Commentary, bk. 2: Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 and 2 Samuel, “Second Book of Samuel,” p. 333.)
ZELPHS-STOVEWORKS Home of quality lightweight backpacking stoves. AND Burrows Lowery Cave
User avatar
zelph
 
Posts: 812
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:14 pm
Location: Northern Illinois

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#356  Postby zelph » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:43 pm

zelph wrote:
Randy Bradford wrote:
zelph wrote:Thank you!

D&C 85:8. What Does It Mean to “Steady the Ark of God”?

This phrase refers to an incident during the reign of King David in ancient Israel. The Philistines had captured the ark of the covenant in battle but returned it when they were struck by plagues (see 1 Samuel 4–6). David and the people later brought the ark to Jerusalem in an ox cart, driven by Uzzah and Ahio. “And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error, and there he died by the ark of God” (2 Samuel 6:6–7; see vv. 1–11). The ark was the symbol of God’s presence, His glory and majesty. When first given to Israel, the ark was placed in the Holy of Holies in the tabernacle, and not even the priest was allowed to approach it. Only the high priest, a type of Christ, could approach it, and then only after going through an elaborate ritual of personal cleansing and propitiation for his sins. The scriptures teach that no unclean thing can dwell in God’s presence (see Moses 6:57). His presence is like a consuming fire (see Hebrews 12:29). Those who bear the vessels of the Lord must be clean (see D&C 133:5).

However well-meaning Uzzah’s intentions, he approached casually what could only be approached under the strictest conditions. He had no faith in God’s power. He assumed that the ark was in danger, forgetting that it was the physical symbol of the God who has all power. We cannot presume to save God and His kingdom through our own efforts.

“Uzzah’s offence consisted in the fact that he had touched the ark with profane feelings, although with good intentions, namely to prevent its rolling over and falling from the cart. Touching the ark, the throne of the divine glory and visible pledge of the invisible presence of the Lord, was a violation of the majesty of the holy God. ‘Uzzah was therefore a type of all who with good intentions, humanly speaking, yet with unsanctified minds, interfere in the affairs of the kingdom of God, from the notion that they are in danger, and with the hope of saving them’ (O.V. Gerlach).” (Keil and Delitzsch, Commentary, bk. 2: Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 and 2 Samuel, “Second Book of Samuel,” p. 333.)


See there Randy, our God is a loving God. First he sends the plauges as a warning and then he strikes down the one with an unsanctified mind that touches it.

There are those that believe Laban was of a sanctified mind and was in possession of the Ark. He threatened to kill and did steal the gold and silver from Nephi and his brothers.


Sacrifice one, for the sake of a nation. ;=)
I can see how it would be humorous to someone like yourself since you seem to be unable to piece together the reasons to why the Ark of the Covenant would have been at Carre-Shinob to begin with. So to stimulate your memory of the previous discussions concerning the Ark of the Covenant and the timeline of the Ark of the Covenant when made it made it's way to Carre-Shinob, the Ark of the Covenant arrived there in the mid 1500's, about 300 years prior to Wakara's death and placement there ... the only reason that Walkara and the Ark came to be in the same location is because it was the only location in the are used by the indigenous people to keep things that were sacred or needed to be kept secure, other than that there is no link whatsoever between Walkara and the Ark of the Covenant.

As for the story of the two live children placed with Walkara's dead body, from our present day perspective it is a tragic and hideous event, of that there is no doubt ... but if viewed from the perspective of the tribe at that time it would have had made sense to them in their fallen state ... again I'm not condoning the action ... The two children placed with Walkara's body were slaves that had been taken from another tribe and they believed that the crying and wailing of the suffering children would ward off the evil spirits ... it was a very sad evil thing to do and very tragic in my view ...


If you were to use logic to the max, your story would have been better if you would have put the Ark in the Hill Cumorah. The hill has done a good job so far keeping the original plates safe.. Oh but, that's another story ;=) But that's ok, your story of laban having the ark is just a story, no factual proof.

Look what Randy had to say about a comment I made awhile back about the indigenous people of the west under the leadership of Walkara:

Randy Bradford wrote:
zelph wrote:Interesting thought Sanpet and thought provoking in terms of what the character of the "chiefs" are entombed in the Carre-Shinob.

I read the history of Chief Walkara and found him to be of questionable character to say the least. Hard to understand how someone could order the killing of his family to accompany him in death.

Why do you think his body was removed from his grave to be placed in Carre-Chinob? Is the Carre-Chinob a resting place for the "bad indians" also known as the Lamanites?


You've made at least three errors here.

1.) You're judging a different culture through the lens of your own. It's an unfair comparison that overlooks the fact that a funeral rite is not a reflection of character, necessarily. Culture dictates norms, customs, acceptable behavior and expectations.

2.) You're judging a man from a modern perspective with no thought to how the context of a behavior was considered in it's proper time period. Granted, it's clear from the reading that the Mormons at the time found the behavior reprehensible, but I'd refer back to my first point on cultural context.

3.) You've accepted whatever history you read at face value. Fact is, all sides of a story always have a bias and the only way to gain some glimmer of reality (and trust me, it will rarely be more than a glimmer) is to know them both and accept that the "truth" is somewhere in the middle. Minimally, we don't have an account by Walker himself, much less by his own people. If we did, we still wouldn't have a full picture, simply more data to ponder.

When it comes to history, complete truth will always be like dumping a glass of water into a river and trying to get it back in the glass.

If you want to go strictly Mormon, the Lamanites were only "bad" initially. The dichotomy of Nephites/Lamanites quickly becomes far more complicated as groups found the gospel, accepted it, were prosperous, and fell to pride and disbelief. Nepites and Lamanites switched back and forth repeatedly until both distinctions were just a label to represent good and evil and not a true reflection of the people that embraced the genetics. This also fails to consider how interbreeding as a result of the repeated taking and losing of lands would have resulted. To say nothing of the fact that there is no reason to beleive the Nephites and Lamanites were ever the exclusive populace and not simply two groups being written about among many others that were not.
ZELPHS-STOVEWORKS Home of quality lightweight backpacking stoves. AND Burrows Lowery Cave
User avatar
zelph
 
Posts: 812
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:14 pm
Location: Northern Illinois

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#357  Postby sanpete » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:07 pm

I have a question here==================================Is there any where in LDS books that says the AOC ever came to America?
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
sanpete
 
Posts: 961
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:00 pm

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#358  Postby Randy Bradford » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:29 pm

sanpet wrote:I have a question here==================================Is there any where in LDS books that says the AOC ever came to America?


Nope Sanpet, as far as I know nobody was forwarding the idea that the AoC was here before Kerry ross Boren. Certainly no direct reference to LDS thought, just some educated guesses based on timelines and what little we know about the fate of the AoC.
User avatar
Randy Bradford
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#359  Postby sanpete » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:08 pm

Randy Bradford wrote:
sanpet wrote:I have a question here==================================Is there any where in LDS books that says the AOC ever came to America?


Nope Sanpet, as far as I know nobody was forwarding the idea that the AoC was here before Kerry ross Boren. Certainly no direct reference to LDS thought, just some educated guesses based on timelines and what little we know about the fate of the AoC.

How can anyone beleve any thing by kerry r. boring?
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
sanpete
 
Posts: 961
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:00 pm

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#360  Postby Randy Bradford » Mon Nov 17, 2014 6:28 pm

sanpet wrote:
Randy Bradford wrote:
sanpet wrote:I have a question here==================================Is there any where in LDS books that says the AOC ever came to America?


Nope Sanpet, as far as I know nobody was forwarding the idea that the AoC was here before Kerry ross Boren. Certainly no direct reference to LDS thought, just some educated guesses based on timelines and what little we know about the fate of the AoC.

How can anyone beleve any thing by kerry r. boring?


I didn't say anyone could...least of all me. I've not been bashful about my feelings on Boren's attempts to rewrite history. that being said, I was simply providing some historical context.
User avatar
Randy Bradford
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#361  Postby zelph » Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:58 pm

Randy, check this out, the highlighted area. The AOC is heavy, cart pulled by oxen to return it. Whyte Eagle said it's light enough to be used as a container to haul the brass plates back up into the wilderness to the hiding place of his family. They had to travel uphill into the wilderness, not onto the prairie. Up into the woods where there are no beaten paths ;=) Logic ;=) Lamen and Lemual would surely not agree to such a task ;=)

D&C 85:8. What Does It Mean to “Steady the Ark of God”?

This phrase refers to an incident during the reign of King David in ancient Israel. The Philistines had captured the ark of the covenant in battle but returned it when they were struck by plagues (see 1 Samuel 4–6). David and the people later brought the ark to Jerusalem in an ox cart, driven by Uzzah and Ahio. “And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error, and there he died by the ark of God” (2 Samuel 6:6–7; see vv. 1–11). The ark was the symbol of God’s presence, His glory and majesty. When first given to Israel, the ark was placed in the Holy of Holies in the tabernacle, and not even the priest was allowed to approach it. Only the high priest, a type of Christ, could approach it, and then only after going through an elaborate ritual of personal cleansing and propitiation for his sins. The scriptures teach that no unclean thing can dwell in God’s presence (see Moses 6:57). His presence is like a consuming fire (see Hebrews 12:29). Those who bear the vessels of the Lord must be clean (see D&C 133:5).
ZELPHS-STOVEWORKS Home of quality lightweight backpacking stoves. AND Burrows Lowery Cave
User avatar
zelph
 
Posts: 812
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:14 pm
Location: Northern Illinois

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#362  Postby Randy Bradford » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:53 pm

zelph wrote:Randy, check this out, the highlighted area. The AOC is heavy, cart pulled by oxen to return it. Whyte Eagle said it's light enough to be used as a container to haul the brass plates back up into the wilderness to the hiding place of his family. They had to travel uphill into the wilderness, not onto the prairie. Up into the woods where there are no beaten paths ;=) Logic ;=) Lamen and Lemual would surely not agree to such a task ;=)


Well...no speaking of what might have happened once it reached America. Whether or not they were willing to carry it in the wilderness before they left for the promise land is where you'd have to make the argument. Laman and Lemuel were also quite compliant when they were frequently..."re-motivated," they just embraced their true natures over time and again descended into iniquity. While I'm thinking about it, the brothers were discouraged about having to abandon their wealth...I would argue carrying the gold-covered Ark away might have been frequently motivating on it's own accord. to Lehi or Nephi, it was a symbol of their faith and covenants...to the brothers it could easily have been viewed as a portable fortune and a reasonable "second prize" for all they left behind.
User avatar
Randy Bradford
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#363  Postby Whyte Eagle » Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:11 pm

zelph wrote:Randy, check this out, the highlighted area. The AOC is heavy, cart pulled by oxen to return it. Whyte Eagle said it's light enough to be used as a container to haul the brass plates back up into the wilderness to the hiding place of his family. They had to travel uphill into the wilderness, not onto the prairie. Up into the woods where there are no beaten paths ;=) Logic ;=) Lamen and Lemual would surely not agree to such a task ;=)


Zelph ... I never said any such thing, if you are going to make a citation, get it straight ... what I said was that the Plates of brass where light enough to be carried by a single individual, I made reference to this because Lehi sent ALL FOUR OF HIS SONS back to Jerusalem to obtain the Brass Plates which could have been carried by one person ... if the Brass Plates were inside of the Ark of the Covenant, however, then it would have made sense to send all four back to help in bringing them out of the city ...
Image
User avatar
Whyte Eagle
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8447
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Western US

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#364  Postby mrjimsfc » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:54 am

Whyte Eagle wrote: if the Brass Plates were inside of the Ark of the Covenant, however, then it would have made sense to send all four back to help in bringing them out of the city ...


But Nephi was the only one bringing anything out of the city. The other brothers were hiding in a cave outside of the city.
"Nobody wants to listen to the voice of reason when there's a good hysteria to be had. Humans are like that."
User avatar
mrjimsfc
 
Posts: 577
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2002 5:00 pm

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#365  Postby Randy Bradford » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:58 pm

mrjimsfc wrote:
Whyte Eagle wrote: if the Brass Plates were inside of the Ark of the Covenant, however, then it would have made sense to send all four back to help in bringing them out of the city ...


But Nephi was the only one bringing anything out of the city. The other brothers were hiding in a cave outside of the city.


OK Jim...I have no response to that.

Well played sir, well played...
User avatar
Randy Bradford
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#366  Postby zelph » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:05 pm

Whyte Eagle wrote:
zelph wrote:Randy, check this out, the highlighted area. The AOC is heavy, cart pulled by oxen to return it. Whyte Eagle said it's light enough to be used as a container to haul the brass plates back up into the wilderness to the hiding place of his family. They had to travel uphill into the wilderness, not onto the prairie. Up into the woods where there are no beaten paths ;=) Logic ;=) Lamen and Lemual would surely not agree to such a task ;=)


Zelph ... I never said any such thing, if you are going to make a citation, get it straight ... what I said was that the Plates of brass where light enough to be carried by a single individual, I made reference to this because Lehi sent ALL FOUR OF HIS SONS back to Jerusalem to obtain the Brass Plates which could have been carried by one person ... if the Brass Plates were inside of the Ark of the Covenant, however, then it would have made sense to send all four back to help in bringing them out of the city ...


Ok, this is what you really said and I quote:

So, I contend that the Ark of the covenant was covered and kept on a wagon, ready to move at a moments notice, when it was in these storage places or treasury's which would have made it fairly simple for Nephi and Zoram to move it outside of the walls of the city. All they would have had to do is hook up the Oxen and off they would go.


You sure are a good story teller ;=)
ZELPHS-STOVEWORKS Home of quality lightweight backpacking stoves. AND Burrows Lowery Cave
User avatar
zelph
 
Posts: 812
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:14 pm
Location: Northern Illinois

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#367  Postby sanpete » Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:55 pm

There is something I would like to know and maybe others also. What I am seeing seems to have a LDS side to this. OK then what about the Jews? What do they think? Now the AOC seems to go back to them why did they lose it if they lose it? Here is one more thing that I have thought about, The LDS church has a study center in Isrel . The Jews let them do this as long as they do not try to convert people. Is there any other relagon there. :"}
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
sanpete
 
Posts: 961
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:00 pm

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#368  Postby Whyte Eagle » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:05 pm

Zelph wrote:You sure are a good story teller


And you are a good spin master. .. ;=) ...
Image
User avatar
Whyte Eagle
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8447
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Western US

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#369  Postby Whyte Eagle » Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:13 pm

sanpet wrote:There is something I would like to know and maybe others also. What I am seeing seems to have a LDS side to this. OK then what about the Jews? What do they think? Now the AOC seems to go back to them why did they lose it if they lose it? Here is one more thing that I have thought about, The LDS church has a study center in Isrel . The Jews let them do this as long as they do not try to convert people. Is there any other relagon there. :"}

Sanpet ... this is probably not the answer you are looking for, but keep in mind that Lehi's family were Jewish, so it's not necessarily an LDS view, although it could be viewed as such because this discussion is centered on the history of the Ark of the Covenant that happened during the time the first part of the Book of Mormon covers ...
Image
User avatar
Whyte Eagle
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8447
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Western US

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#370  Postby zelph » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:36 pm

Randy Bradford wrote:
zelph wrote:Randy, check this out, the highlighted area. The AOC is heavy, cart pulled by oxen to return it. Whyte Eagle said it's light enough to be used as a container to haul the brass plates back up into the wilderness to the hiding place of his family. They had to travel uphill into the wilderness, not onto the prairie. Up into the woods where there are no beaten paths ;=) Logic ;=) Lamen and Lemual would surely not agree to such a task ;=)


Well...no speaking of what might have happened once it reached America. Whether or not they were willing to carry it in the wilderness before they left for the promise land is where you'd have to make the argument. Laman and Lemuel were also quite compliant when they were frequently..."re-motivated," they just embraced their true natures over time and again descended into iniquity. While I'm thinking about it, the brothers were discouraged about having to abandon their wealth...I would argue carrying the gold-covered Ark away might have been frequently motivating on it's own accord. to Lehi or Nephi, it was a symbol of their faith and covenants...to the brothers it could easily have been viewed as a portable fortune and a reasonable "second prize" for all they left behind.


We have to always remember that it's a "theory" that Whyte Eagle has that Lehi was in possession of the AOC, only a theory, no mention of it in the BoM, none what so ever. Whyte Eagle is as good as Russell Burrows at making up stories and we can also throw in Harry Hubbard as a good story teller. Hah!!! Brewer and Boren also were almost as good. :mrgreen:

As far as the brothers being a little put out because of the loss of their gold and silver they would have gone back in the treasury and looted it if given the chance :mrgreen:

Lehi and all the other prophets would have included in their records the fact that the Ark was in their possession. Modern day prophets would have let us know one way or the other.

Whyte Eagle has a theory based on his treasure hunting mentality and that is ok. He has interesting things to say related to the Ark itself.
ZELPHS-STOVEWORKS Home of quality lightweight backpacking stoves. AND Burrows Lowery Cave
User avatar
zelph
 
Posts: 812
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:14 pm
Location: Northern Illinois

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#371  Postby Randy Bradford » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:19 am

zelph wrote: Modern day prophets would have let us know one way or the other.


Not unless they had a reason to. Modern day prophets have been silent on many things...particularly things that could conceivably support Mormonism. The Brewer Plates, the Michigan Plates, the Cottonwood Copper Tablets...these are all things the church have no official stance on. The church hasn't even taken an official stance on where the Book of Mormon took place, hence dozens of theories. The leaders of the church have weightier issues to deal with in my estimation...
User avatar
Randy Bradford
 
Posts: 215
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#372  Postby Whyte Eagle » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:30 pm

Zelph wrote:Lehi and all the other prophets would have included in their records the fact that the Ark was in their possession.


As I've said time and again, they most likely did include a mention of the Ark of the Covenant in their record keeping ... remember, our current hard copy of the Book of Mormon came from the Gold Plates which were abridged from the original records ... in other words we don't have the full content od the original records, just the abridgement ...
Image
User avatar
Whyte Eagle
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8447
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:00 pm
Location: Western US

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#373  Postby laylochameleon » Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:21 am

WOW!!!!!

Just read the entire evolving thread.

Fictional history and fictional characters combined with zealot logic and stupidity!

I do believe there is a snake oil salesman in town!!!!

WOW!!!!!
Laylochameleon

"Most people think, great GOD will come from the sky, take away every pain & make everybody feel high. But if you knew what life is worth, you would look for yours on Earth" Bob Marley
User avatar
laylochameleon
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:22 am
Location: Southern Oresgone

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#374  Postby Uley Bauer » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:38 am

Sometimes people ask for too much. Really. Some want to be taken by the hand & lead directly to the treasure, and with a firm, kind voice be told there it is. There it is. See it there? If anyone on this site & others like it ever discuss treasure they have done so in 'code' & riddles even. Some time back there was a tv series that was about gold panning, gold mining, gold finding & they amazed me by how their voices changed to a very low level, not one but all whispering. I attributed it to 'gold fever.' So, nobody's going to give up 'The Big Secret.' To find any of these Ancient Lost Treasures you'll have to learn a few things: go back to the basics, stay focused, be an independent thinker, & so fourth. Basics like the common compass. It not only shows direction but can make lines. Lines can give distances. And the story books, if your not careful will lead you off by their drama & non-sense of inyouindo. Think about. What have you got to lose? :rofl:
Uley Bauer
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:34 pm

Re: Let the truth be known...

Post Number:#375  Postby Gohot » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:57 pm

Ahhhhhh, it's time to get a tall tumbler full of ice and cream soda and get back to writing. Heak it's been some months since anyone has posted anything. It's July, and it's hot, and there's a drought going on in a lot of places. And it might just be too hot to be traipsing around in the Uinta's I'd like to hear more from you guys. I'm finally unable to walk more than a couple hundred feet at a time, so my thoughts of photography have vanished. Still one can let the imagination go to work. I don't see much from Lostislost, hope He's still with us.... So, just thought I'd stop in and stir the kettle so to speak. :~d
User avatar
Gohot
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:00 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Carre-Shinob

  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest