Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Discussion of the ever elusive location we've come to know as Carre-Shinob ... is it fact or legend?

Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#26  Postby zelph » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:40 am

(Continued from first page)


When a group of Pahvants approached with bundles of buckskin and offered to trade for tobacco and other goods, settlers surrounded the party and they attempted to disarm them. A fight ensued and the father of the Pahvant War Chief Mosnoquap was mortally wounded by a gun shot to his side. In retaliation, Mosnoquap ambushed a United States Army Survey Team in bivouac near Sevier Lake some 35 miles northwest of Fillmore. Captain John W. Gunnison and 8 of his men died as the Pahvants attacked with a barrage of arrows and bullets as the morning sun rose on the army camp. When word of the battle reached Fillmore several days later, White officials traveled to the site with Kanosh, Chief of the Pahvant Utes. Kanosh, long considered a friend of the pioneers, was sickened at the sight of the mulilated remains of Gunnison's men. After ordering the appearance of Mosnoquap, Kanosh admonished the war chief for his actions. Although reproved for his role in the battle, the war chief was never surrendered by Kanosh to either Brigham Young or a U.S. Army detachment which had been sent to the Utah Territory to keep the peace. With the approach of spring of 1854, the Utes had grown tired of the fighting, and Walkara found the ranks of supporters growing ever thinner. Governor Young, recognizing the opportunity of the moment, arrived at Walkara's camp on Chicken Creek near Nephi on May 22, with a contingent of 50 mounted militiamen and 100 wagons filled with gentlemen, their wives and families. The Chief was presented with 16 head of oxen, blankets, clothing, tobacco, whiskey, trinkets, arms and ammunition. During negotiations that lasted into the night, the Utes agreed to cease all hostilities against the pioneers and to give up their slave trade. The Mormons in return would establish an Indian farm near Utah Lake. The calmut of peace was smoked on the 23rd of May and thus ended 10 months of violence that had claimed 22 pioneer lives, an undetermined number of Ute deaths, and about $200,000 worth of property damage.
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#27  Postby sanpete » Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:25 am

Zelph That is very good info. Just a couple things here=========It says that Chief Walker with a birthday between 1800-1815. If Walker was born in 1815 he would have been 10 years old when he led his 1st. raiding party in 1825. So I think he was born before then. Say maybe in the 1800 to 1808 are there about. The next thing is a little history about Ephraim. His raiding party came out of Ephraim Canyon and started killing people from "gardnoll" to Shumway springs. They killed 7 people on that day. When they got to Shumway they killed one family but left a 2year old baby live. Every body that was killed was buried in one mass grave in what is as (The old cemetery" about a mile north of Ephraim. 90 years latter the baby boy that they let live put a big head stone on that mass grave telling the story. sanpet.
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#28  Postby zelph » Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:18 pm

sanpet wrote:Birth: 1800
Spanish Fork
Utah County
Utah, USA
Death: Dec. 29, 1855
Meadow
Millard County
Utah, USA


Walkara died of peneumonia 29 January 1855 at Meadow Creek, Millard County, Utah.


It was reported that the original gravesite was robbed in 1909, but pioneers claimed that, in April of 1856, his frozen remains were secreted off and buried by his brother, Chief Arapeen, who had succeeded Walkara as reigning chief of the Utes and his half brother, Tabiona (Chief Tabby), along with five other Utes and two Mormon Elders.

The secret site was said to be high in the Uinta Mountains, at a location known as Carre-Shinob. Here Walkara's remains were supposedly placed to repose with those of his paternal grandfather and many ancestors. Legend has it that the site is also a repository of much Uinta gold from Indian mine.



It's strange that Walkaras brother would bury him and then 3 months later open his grave and take his still frozen body off to a different location.

I wonder if the brother was buried and then dug up and taken to Carre-Shinob. If he was not taken there we can assume the carre no longer exixts. It has been looted of it's contents.and closed with dynamite. :o
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#29  Postby sanpete » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:47 pm

Zelph Chief died and was buried in Meadow, Utah and in the spring was taken to the great chiefs cave, the Carre. I have seen, talked to any body who has seen him (the chief) in the Carre. Have you?
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#30  Postby sanpete » Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:54 pm

Let me correct one thing, I have never seen anyone has seen the Chief in the Carre. Also now we have two different death dates on the Chief. 29Dec1855 and 29Jan1855.
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#31  Postby zelph » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:30 pm

Sanpet, as we can see, every time someone writes something about the history of Walkara something changes and additional info is given. Makes for an interesting topic.

When the body of Walkara was removed from his stone grave which was 10 feet in diameter there were plenty of guys to help take him to the Cave of Cheifs also known as Carre-Chinob. Here is what we've learned about that:

It was reported that the original gravesite was robbed in 1909, but pioneers claimed that, in April of 1856, his frozen remains were secreted off and buried by his brother, Chief Arapeen, who had succeeded Walkara as reigning chief of the Utes and his half brother, Tabiona (Chief Tabby), along with five other Utes and two Mormon Elders.

The secret site was said to be high in the Uinta Mountains, at a location known as Carre-Shinob. Here Walkara's remains were supposedly placed to repose with those of his paternal grandfather and many ancestors. Legend has it that the site is also a repository of much Uinta gold from Indian mines.


That comes to a total of 9 knowing where the Carre was located and who saw the other chiefs that were laid to rest in the cave. Most importantly they also saw the "GOLD"............. :shock: all 9 of them knew where it was. When they returned to Meadow did they sit around the campfire and take a solemn oath never to tell where they had been????? I don't think so.

We've read the documentation of where Walkara's original grave was and the fact that it been visited by "grave robbers" It is documented also that other graves nearby were robbed.

One other thing....They took him to the cave in early April while Walker's body was frozen which leads me to believe the cave was not in the higher elevations where there was likely to have been deep snow. That's a little clue :mrgreen:
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#32  Postby mrjimsfc » Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:55 am

It would be informative to know who the two Mormon Elders were.
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#33  Postby zelph » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:11 am

mrjimsfc wrote:It would be informative to know who the two Mormon Elders were.


Church records would show who were serving as "Missionaries" in the area at that time. Elder could be any male member living in the area that was ordained to that priesthood.

We can always depend on the Missionaries to provide acts of charity and service to our fellow man. ;=) Now to help carry a frozen corps off to a cave is going the "extra mile" Can you imagine what they would have written in their journals about that particular act of kindness... "Dear Mom and Dad, we helped dig up ole chief blah, blah, blah :o
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#34  Postby sanpete » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:20 am

A lot of people say that Isike Morrley from Manti was one of the two LDS elders.
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#35  Postby zelph » Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:20 pm

sanpet wrote:A lot of people say that Isike Morrley from Manti was one of the two LDS elders.


Well there ya are...a good source of info. Do some archive search on him.

He probably has taken his whole family to the Carre while on vacation down there. ;=)

We all have to pinch ourselves and be reminded that this is the year 2014. Just think of how many thousands of treasure hunters, historians, relic hunters etc. have searched for and found the place where 9 guys laid to rest the frozen corps of Cheif Walkara.

Certainly the first ones to loot the cave did not hang a sign out front saying "Walkara Was Here" ;=) Today we might find some graffiti saying "class of 2001" :mrgreen:
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#36  Postby Lostaslost » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:27 pm

Zelph and all. First a famous Utah author searched for and found the cave where Walkeria was placed first. He wrote about Butch and also Salt Desert Trails. I forget his name now that I need it. He had found the cave years ago. He then was told by old Utes that he had been carried to the Carrie and placed there with so many other old chiefs. This was his grand fathers grave site also. He had been killed by the Spanish when the first came here. Boren tells the whole story and you can believe what you like and or dislike. Just do what all of the others do and call him a liar although I know a lot better. I do my research. Now for your group that told you other wise they may have found a site where one was buried and dug it up but they did not dig up Walkeria. Now for thr site I have no doubt that someone else has been there but they never new it. Rhoads of course was there a lot. Hathenbrock is just as the story says and you can count on it. He said if he ever returned he felt his bones would still be resting there. Not a bad idea as I have actually told my wife I would like my ashes spread over the area. My son knows the actual spots I would like them spread. My wife want ever let it happen. I for one also fell that Butch saw the cave and actually entered it. This is my comprehension of the story.....As you have said the Carrie was covered with tons of material after it had a wall blown over it. I doubt a single item was removed. Can you even imagine what all is there. Do you even know where it is located. Some may but I doubt many do and I do not even want to hear a word from you if you even think you know where it is at. How about the true location of the real Rhoades Mine which holds the real Rhoades Treasure which so happens to be the Knights Treasure which does not actually hold the Ark. The Ark is where the Carrie sits. You might want to look for the Big LOU.

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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#37  Postby sanpete » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:10 am

The other Mormon elder was Caleb Rhoades.
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#38  Postby zelph » Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:32 am

sanpet wrote:The other Mormon elder was Caleb Rhoades.



I got my information from:

http://heritage.utah.gov/apps/history/m ... kerid=1244

Where did you get the info on Caleb Rhodes being the Mormon Elder?

All this information has left Whyte Eagle "speechless" :mrgreen: I think he's depressed that his History Sticks will never be found :o

So many people have been to the Cave of Chiefs but know one will put an X to mark the spot. Get the BLM to designate it as a Nation Heritage Site. Employ the Utes to be guardians and hand out brochures to tourists/backpackers and others :~d Get AHRF to sponsor lectures there.
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#39  Postby Trigace » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:20 pm

There is also the story that Walker was moved from his Meadow burial to the Indian burial site near the bottom of Rock Creek. This location would be easy to access in early April and easy to re-inter his body with the many other chiefs buried there. The story of his burial at the Carre location may be disinformation disseminated to discourage anyone from searching for his body at the Rock Creek site.
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#40  Postby sanpete » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:37 pm

some where here ALT
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#41  Postby Whyte Eagle » Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:33 pm

Zelph wrote:All this information has left Whyte Eagle "speechless" I think he's depressed that his History Sticks will never be found


I'm far from speechless Zelph ... more like cautious trying to assess what can and what shouldn't be said, and they're not my history sticks.
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#42  Postby sanpete » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:15 pm

Whyte Eagle Please tell us more about your history sticks
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#43  Postby mrjimsfc » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:21 pm

sanpet wrote:The other Mormon elder was Caleb Rhoades.

I haven't been able to find anything to substantiate that statement. :~o
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#44  Postby KsTHer » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:58 pm

mrjimsfc wrote:

sanpet wrote:
The other Mormon elder was Caleb Rhoades.


I haven't been able to find anything to substantiate that statement.


I think it was mentioned in "Of Men and Gold" but I would have to re-read it to be certain.
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#45  Postby zelph » Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:38 pm

Whyte Eagle wrote:
Zelph wrote:All this information has left Whyte Eagle "speechless" I think he's depressed that his History Sticks will never be found


I'm far from speechless Zelph ... more like cautious trying to assess what can and what shouldn't be said, and they're not my history sticks.



Explorers and researchers alike are constantly making new and exciting historical discoveries. Piece by piece the puzzle of the past comes together, providing a better understanding of the complex history of our world. Founded in 2004, The Ancient Historical Research Foundation was created to research, locate, organize and document historic and ancient history as it comes into view. Societal biases, personal agendas among the academic community and layman alike, disinformation, and misinformation have had a tremendous influence on the way humans in general view the past. Our goal is to discover the truth, where ever it may lead ...


It is true, they are not your History Sticks.

What can your organization do to insure the sticks will not fall into the hands of grave robbers?

What truth have you discovered that you can share with your readers of these forums?

Your organization has documented what has been said here in these threads yet you are quiet and reserved to give insight on the welfare of the contents of Walkara's first grave site and his final resting place in the Cave of Chiefs.

The HARF also knows the location of the Brewer's cave and there is no evidence that shows something is being done to protect it's contents.

Treasure hunters and grave robbers are being inspired by the likes of Heinerman by reading his book claiming he's been in the cave. They want to find the cave for their own personal financial gain. They want to rob it of it's historical treasures.

We all know what Russel Burrows did with the many artifacts that he came upon. He sold them for his own financial gain.

What is AHRF doing to protect the historical treasures that are still remaining? Are you talking to the folks that are posting all this information on how they know the exact locations of these famous sought after mines and caves.
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#46  Postby mrjimsfc » Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:15 pm

Zelph: you're asking some hard questions. I like it!
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#47  Postby zelph » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:04 pm

mrjimsfc wrote:Zelph: you're asking some hard questions. I like it!


Yes, evidently too hard for Whyte Eagle or others to answer. :o
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#48  Postby zelph » Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:05 pm

mrjimsfc wrote:Zelph: you're asking some hard questions. I like it!


Mountain lion has his tongue ;=)

I'll assume the organization doesn't. ;=)
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#49  Postby zelph » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:01 pm

Whyte Eagle wrote:I don't recall exactly, but if memory serves me right the term "Cave of Chiefs" was a quote from the news article. I included "Carre-Shinob" in parenthesis to indicate that maybe it was one and the same place. I don't know that the care takers of the location called it Sacred, or referred to it as such, but I have found references to two distinct names, 1) The Cave of Death and 2) The place were God dwells ... I suppose you could insinuate that the latter of the two would be synonymous with Sacred, but it would depend on who was doing the definitions. My interpitation and reasoning for the two names comes from what I believe was stored there for about 300 years between the mid 1550's to the md 1850's ...


Just gathering a few facts to add to my notebook.

I highlighted what Whyte Eagle says about something he believes was stored there.

History shows that Walkara had 2 of his wives and children killed to accompany him in death. Keep in mind the ethics involved here. ;=)

Walkara's body was taken to the Carre-Shinob where some believe is "The Place Where God Dwells" Would God want to dwell in the same place as Walkara?

In another thread I'll point out what Whyte Eagle has said was stored in the Carre-Shinob
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Re: Chief Wakara's Final Resting Place

Post Number:#50  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:35 pm

Zelph wrote:In another thread I'll point out what Whyte Eagle has said was stored in the Carre-Shinob


I think most everyone who frequents the forum knows that I have said the Ark of the Covenant was stored at the Carre-Shinob (Cave of Chiefs) for about 300 years ... from the mid 1550's to the mid 1850's ... Ironically it was the interment of Walkara at Carre-Shinob which initiated it's removal from there to where it is now ... Those who were involved in moving it we instructed or inspired (or maybe both) as to where to take it to and also to leave a means by which it could be found again when the time was right for it to come forth once again ... My research into the Ark of the Covenant began while I was serving a Mission in Europe in the early 1980's and the path of that research has lead me to the markers left behind by those who moved it in the 1850's, there are three in total (I have found all three) but only two are required in order to locate it ...
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