Lets clear up the confusion about mine names

Discussion of the ever elusive location we've come to know as Carre-Shinob ... is it fact or legend?

Lets clear up the confusion about mine names

Post Number:#1  Postby gecko13 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:08 pm

What we need is a strict canonical directory of which mine is which, using the most reliable sources, and coming to a concensus on it. There is so much confusion on here about which cave/mine is which, and to be honest it is less clear than it was in the mid- to late- 90's, and this can be attributed to Shaffer, Boren, and a couple of people on here.
An example:
Josephine Mine, Mine Of The Utes. In the 90's this was known as the mine/cave system on hoyt peak. The Garcia Waybill points THERE and NOWHERE ELSE. This has been proven time and time again. NOW, we have Lostaslost claiming that "his" carre shin ob is the lost josephine, AND Sacred Mine #2 yada yada yada.

The mine ORIGINALLY called Sacred Mine #2 was ALWAYS the one above the white ledges, just south of farm creek pass, above Dick Hollow. Am I wrong about that? Am I remembering wrong?

Carre-Shin-Ob on the NORTH SLOPE? When the HELL did that happen? We have people on here who are just simply making stuff up, and it just clouds the issue even more.

So, I suggest that we go back to the RELIABLE books, use the names from there as a start and go from there.

The common sources:

Anything by Kerry Ross Boren is NOT reliable in my opinion and anybody that validates his nonsense is either a pathalogical liar of the highest order or suffering from a mental disorder, or both.

Stephen Shaffer is a LITTLE more reliable than Boren.

Thompson was consistent, and actually a better researcher than Boren or Shaffer, I know this because I purchased some of his research library after his death.

Gale Rhoades: He was a decent guy who trusted the wrong people, but I found his work invaluable.

Any others? I have heard that Gifford's book and Dale Bascombes book are good but I haven't read them.

We have to have some standards applied here, so lets use those.

And please, lets try to avoid comments about Templars, Ark Of The Covenant, Lost Nephite Hoard etc etc etc. Whats next? The mine is guarded by Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?

Hell, if you want to see Carre-Shin-Ob just drive up Paradise Park Road, just north of Whiterocks. You can (could) just barely see it from there, I spent a LOT of time around Lake Mountain in the 90's.

So, what do YOU guys think?
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Re: Lets clear up the confusion about mine names

Post Number:#2  Postby sanpete » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:32 pm

Everybody has there own idea, You are never going to find anything that is reliable until GOD says so. Only he will pick the right man to find it. :thud:
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Lets clear up the confusion about mine names

Post Number:#3  Postby roughrockxxx » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:55 pm

I like your idea
Making them work is another thing
its worth posting anyway
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Re: Lets clear up the confusion about mine names

Post Number:#4  Postby gecko13 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:16 am

Something needs to be done, it's gotten out of hand.

More than one source states that you can see Carre from the town of Whiterocks. Many other sources say it is "low down", not where you would normally look. To ME that puts it on the SOUTH range, somewhere between the mouth of Dry Fork Canyon to the East and Whiterocks Canyon to the West? Maybe a little further West? What do you guys think?

I am of the firm opinion that Hoyt Peak is the mine mentioned in the Garcia Waybill as the Lost Josephine. This is just my opinion but it is based on some fairly decent evidence. What happened to the Garcia Waybill anyway? Last time I saw the official copy was at the Utah Historical Society back in '94 (?), they weren't letting us look at the original back then, I suspect it had already been handed over to BYU at that time, I do know that the Church was trying to gain custody of it one way or another.

Even if we can only get a few of these sorted out it would go a LONG way towards clearing up some of the confusion.

Anybody ever find the Powell Deer Hunt Mine? I found something years ago along the Provo River just downstream from the confluence with Beaver Creek that fit the location shown on the map. If anyone is interested PM me for details.
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Re: Lets clear up the confusion about mine names

Post Number:#5  Postby Trigace » Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:09 pm

I have just a couple of questions for you Gecko 13: You said you used to could just barely see Carre Shinob from the road to Paradise Park? Are you really talking about the Carre, or do you mean Towats, the Indian God rock formation near Ice Cave Peak? If you mean the Carre, where the gold mine/cave is located, why didn't you go get the gold if you knew about where it was?

You said you found something related to the Powell Deer Camp on the Provo River just below the confluence with Beaver Creek. Beaver Creek does not flow into the Provo River. It flows to the west into Kamas Valley and eventually into the Weber River. Shingle Creek is probably the stream you are referring to that flows into the Provo River. I've searched the area above that confluence for the place where they hung their deer but found nothing nearby.

As far as the location of the Carre being on the North Slope, I think that may have come from Boren's story of his trip to the Carre. As I tried to follow the route he described, it took me over the top of the North Slope divide into the South Slope area. Also some people think that the Lost Cabin Mine story of Scout Lake is really somewhere on the South Slope and could actually be the Carre.

I went with Lostaslost and a few others to his Carre location a few years ago. He has good reasons to think as he does. He had a frightening experience at the entrance to his mine/cave and saw some things that convinced him it was the Carre (along with a lot of research). I don't know whose story to believe. I know Boren has lost a lot of credibility but he has things in his books that can be verified and make a lot of sense. You just have to be able to separate out the BS from the truth. But that's the way it is for all the authors that I've read.

Gary Holt says his mining claim on Hoyt Peak is not only the Josephine Mine but also the Rhoades Mine and I think the Carre Shinob. Does the Carre really even exist? Or is it just the fabrication of a few authors, each one building on the last one?
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Re: Lets clear up the confusion about mine names

Post Number:#6  Postby sanpete » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:38 pm

boren has never told the truth about anything. Come on now "jayson and the arganots" on Manti Tempel hill having a big fight, Give me a break now. boren "borowed" things from other authers and made it his. born killed his wife with a 2x4 and you beleve him. I know the man who was his case worker when he was in prison and born never told the truth about anything. sanpete :zap: :o
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Lets clear up the confusion about mine names

Post Number:#7  Postby Trigace » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:28 pm

Sanpete-

If you read a little closer you will see that Boren didn't state as fact that Jason and the Argonauts were in the Manti area. He said it was his opinion, a hypothesis, based on research and logic. How can it be a lie if it's his opinion? I've heard of many people's opinions on this and other websites that were obviously not true (in my opinion) but that didn't make them a liar either. Boren has a lot of backup history for his hypothesis. Did you read it? I haven't heard you state anything to back up your claims that it isn't true.

Boren has made a lot of assumptions and claims that I don't believe or agree with. But until I can prove otherwise with facts, I'm not going to call him a liar. I've verified some of the historical research he has presented and have not found anything contradictory to other reports.

I know what his criminal record is and I know he has the reputation of writing falsehoods. Other than his stated opinions tell me what he has written in his books that is verifiably false.

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Re: Lets clear up the confusion about mine names

Post Number:#8  Postby gecko13 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:53 am

Hi guys, sorry I didn't post sooner but I suffered another heart attack a week and a half ago, just got out of hospital yesterday.
Anyway, as far as Lostislost is concerned I consider him a bit of of a nutcase (not in a bad way), but based on what I know of him and PM'S we had on ToH he is NOT a liar. If he says he found a mine then thats good enough for me, I believe him. I question the NAMES of the mines, and historically the Carre has always been on the South Slope, not the North. Now, the mine he found could be one of the mines held sacred by the Utes, maybe it isn't, who knows? I just maintain that we need to come to some concordance about the names. Perhaps we could generate a list and use abbreviations (i.e. CSO-1, CSO-2, SM-1 etc,) so we ALL know which one we are talking about.
The Powell Deer Hunt mine: You are right, I was remembering wrong, I will PM you after I have refreshed my memory (going to call a friend who was with me and see if he still has his maps).
From Paradise Peak road as you drive up keep looking to the left across the canyon. At one point you can see across and down and there was a patch of brush on the far side in front of some boulders. Behind the boulders was an opening visible through binoculars. It was totally invisible from the bottom of the canyon, and other than that one spot it was invisible from across the canyon. We marked the location but when we finally were able to get back to check it out we had problems. We parked my 4x4 down the canyon a little ways from it and started hiking. I would say we were about 200 yards from it when some one yelled at us. Over to the right was a guy in denims, cowboy hat, and pistol belt walking towards us. He explained (very nicely, he was actually really polite about it) that we had just entered private land and we would have to leave. We said our sorry's to him and beat feet out of there. There was a cabin down in the pines by the creek, I guess he had something to do with it because thats the direction he headed afterwards. I never was able to confirm if it really was private but after that i stuck to stooging around on Lake Mountain.
On the subject of Whiterocks Canyon, what was all that quarrying about on the West side?
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Re: Lets clear up the confusion about mine names

Post Number:#9  Postby sanpete » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:58 am

:~d gecko13. It's been a long time cents I have heard the term "beat feet". I was still in the Marines at that time.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Lets clear up the confusion about mine names

Post Number:#10  Postby mrjimsfc » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:48 pm

gecko13 wrote:On the subject of Whiterocks Canyon, what was all that quarrying about on the West side?

Tar sands! They have been using that material to pave roads all over the county. The deposit continues on the east side of the canyon.
"Nobody wants to listen to the voice of reason when there's a good hysteria to be had. Humans are like that."
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Re: Lets clear up the confusion about mine names

Post Number:#11  Postby gecko13 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:48 pm

Semper Fi Sanpet, I was USAF but spent a couple of years assigned to a unit that worked in conjunction with Marine units. Love those big ugly guys, always knew I was safe when they were on the job. After I got out I ended up living in So Cal and every thanksgiving the wife and I would host recruits from Camp Pendleton for dinner, great young men. Thanks for your service man, it's truly appreciated.

Tar sands? Often wondered about that place.
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