The Gold of Carre Shinob

Discussion of the ever elusive location we've come to know as Carre-Shinob ... is it fact or legend?

Re: Ellijay

Post Number:#151  Postby Robert Gifford » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:47 am

Hello Woody,

Not working any sites in Ga at the present, but I have during the past four years.

If you have a small dredge or pan, Go up the Yahula, about four hundred yards above the bridge. Don't know who you would ask permission of, but I took several small nuggets out of there three years ago when I was running heavy equipment on the new golf course just down the road about a half mile.

I didn't get hardly any fines, but the nuggets were in quartz, which I desolved off with nitric acid. Stuff hadn't traveled very far. Still sharp edges, and not rounded off at all.

I suppose they came from the Comstock deposit on the other side of town. If that is the case, there is about two miles of creek to play with. Of coarse the city took most of it and made a city park out of it. That whole flat, where they made the big retension pond and dam, had quite a bit of gold in it.

Good luck.

Hey.....
RL Gifford
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X Mark's The Spot Color Images!

Post Number:#152  Postby Whyte Eagle » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:50 am

Just an FYI ... thanks to Robert Gifford, he has made available the color images of X Mark's The Spot and they can be viewed here :

X Mark's The Spot Color Images
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Re: Carrie-Shin-Ob

Post Number:#153  Postby Robert Gifford » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:16 am

Hey JB,

Long time no see. I wasn't ignoring you, I just needed some time to give an answer to what you were addressing in the above post.

The Galena that came from the Old Dyer Mine is exactly what I found in the smelter floor, near the sinks that Gale was working in. That is what Kerry's son is referring to. That is not the ~Carrie~. that is also the mine tunnel that I alluded to that was literally solid metal, top bottom and both sides.

It is not the Rhoades #2 mine which I am sure is the Carrie. The Rhoades #2 mine (Carrie) is of coarse between the smelter and the Old Dyer mine. The Dyer which did mine gold and Gelina with high silver content. There was a very high copper content in the gold deposit which made it very hard to extract the gold of the Dyer mine. These two deposits were only a few hundred feet apart, but were of a nature that they were not deposited at the same time. If the same magma action deposited both the Sssilver/Galena and the copper/gold, then it had to do so several thousand years
apart. Were talking at least 30/40K years apart.

In any case, I will give one clue, and I also gave it in the book. This is a scavenger hunt, not a free giveaway.

~Look for the Barite Roses. They are in the temperature range that you are looking for."

Good Hunting.

RL Gifford



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Towats, Tobats, Shinob

Post Number:#154  Postby bookcliff48 » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:42 am

Found this interesting website. Scroll down to the Rush Lake Legend. After you read that one then click on the story about the terrapin.

Is Towats and Tobats the same. Could be a variation of Tovats. I found about a dozen different spellings for Chief Walker yesterday. For example; Walkara, Wakara, Waccara and even more. However some of these spellings are rare. They may have been more common in the 19th Century.

p073.ezboard.com/Ancient-...ttreasures
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Re: Carrie-Shin-Ob

Post Number:#155  Postby Robert Gifford » Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:05 am

Hey JB,

The myth that the Carrie is next to houses is false. The Galena that I matched to the residue left in the rocks of the floor of the smelter near Gales' sinks, came from the galena mine next to the houses.

And yes, you probably should go around so that you don't cross someones back yard.

The Gelina mine was part of the Copper/gold deposit of the Old Dyer Mine.

Again, that is not the carrie.

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Re: Towats, Tobats, Shinob

Post Number:#156  Postby bookcliff48 » Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:23 pm

I must be getting senile. I don't know how that link got there. This is the one I meant to use.

The Rush Lake Legend

A Pahute Indian named "Narro-gwe-nap" or Keeper of the Tales related the following legend to William R. Palmer (1877-1960) who was an advisor and advocate to the Cedar City, Utah Pahute Indian tribe.

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A mound of stones which might have been a part of the fortress.


In the early days, Rush Lake, Utah was a major travel route, watering hole and campground to the Indians. The lake was maintained by a spring that flowed from the point of the black hill. In recent years, Rush Lake has dried up - no doubtedly due to the lowering of ground water by wells in the area.

As the Legend goes, the Indian Oonuput (That one) killed Shinob (The god of love) at Rush Lake. This caused Oonuput great shame and disgrace. The chief god Tobats swore to kill Oonuput.

Tobats built a small fortress on the top of the hill just east of the lake. (According to Palmer, a piece of the wall still stands.) Here Tobats waited for Oonuput to come for water so that he could kill him. Oonuput found out about Tobats plan of vengence and went to nearby water holes. After several days had passed and Oonuput had not come, Tobats decided to dig up all the water holes except for Rush Lake thus forcing Oonuput to come in for water. Tobats carried out his plan and all the water dried up except at Rush Lake.
Several days later as Tobats was inspecting the valley below, he saw Oonuput wriggling through the brush trying to sneak in for water. When Oonuput reached the lake and started drinking, Tobats shot him through the back with an arrow. Oonuput died and turned to stone.

William R. Palmer recalled that when he was a boy, he remembered seeing a large stone in the shape of a man with a hole in its back, lying at the water's edge. The stone was later broken up and placed into the rock fence next to the lake.

After Oonuput was killed, a great darkness fell over the land. It was so dark that fires could not be seen. There was great fear and mourning among the people. During this time, the Indians began wandering off in different directions getting themselves lost in the darkness. Tobats went to the top of the hill and cried down to the people telling them to stay in one place, grasp each other's hands, and to gather into a group. He then told them to come up to the top of the hill and make a circle around him.

In traveling up the hill, the Indians formed a trail that according to Palmer was still there during his lifetime.

After the people were gathered, Tobats took his quiver of arrows and began shooting them into the sky to see if the darkness could be penetrated. The arrows were made with feathers from different types of birds. After several attempts, Tobats picked up an arrow with Flicker feathers on it. The arrow pierced the sky and opened a small hole of light. When the arrow returned the feathers were streaked with red. Tobats then used an arrow with Magpie feathers. The arrow penetrated the darkness and light appeared. Upon returning, the Magpie feathers were streaked with white.

Tobats called the Flicker bird to him. (At that time the Flicker bird had no red.) Tobats told the bird that from this time forth it would be streaked with red in honor of what it did. He then called the Magpie bird to him, which at that time didn't have white, and told the Magpie that it would be streaked with white in honor of what it did. These two birds were sacred to the Indians.

Image
At Parowan Gap there is a rocky outcrop that has a human like appearance. The Indians in the area considered it to be sacred for it was the profile of Tobats

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Re: Carrie-Shin-Ob

Post Number:#157  Postby Randy W Lewis » Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:54 am

lostaslost

the shoot out was not at scout lake...


you should already know that..

butch
it was a mining accident he got hit in the head with a large block and tackle.. near leeds.. near Prumpt

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Shootout at Scout Lake or where ever?

Post Number:#158  Postby Lostaslost » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:41 am

Randy, like everyone involved with the Lost Rhoades Mine I just have to take things as being written and try to make the best of it unless I can prove to myself different. I have definitely proven some writters wrong and for the most part my opinion is that they did so for there on purpose or certainly that is my view. Everyone has definitly guessed wrong for the Rhoades Mine at least once during there searches or the mine would have been found long ago. Now George Thompson did in his writting state that the gunfight took place on the Bear River. I think that has to be BS because we have Davidson stating that the gunfight took place at Scout Lake. He had pictures of the cabin where the gunfight took place that still matched in 1950 I believe it is said. Also Gale and Kerry in there first book had a picture of Landreth (Sundance Kid) standing out on a rock at Mirrow Lake with a compass in hand where they had made camp for a night I believe. It is a known fact that there are a number of mines in the area. I have spent a quite a bit of time looking for the Pine Mine there in that location as that is supposedly the area that Caleb's map to his brother was for in which he would want for nothing the rest of his life. Yes I do know that the map is meant for location all over the Uintas. I just try to go with the fact and all other evidence that I am able to put together in my head. John himself had said that if he was searching for the mine that he would have started at Fish Lake and of course we should all know for sure that one was found collapsed on the lakes edge. As for George Thompson's info concerning the gunfight on the Bear River, well I give up. Beall supposedly came up with that infoe and I know for a fact that he did much mining in the area of the Bear River and the first mine I found was one of the Beall Mines located in the area. The mine was actually an old Spanish Mine that had been abandoned and it of course had much gold in it and from the year dates on the trees it can be seen that Beall worked the mine for a lot of years. His daughter told me about 20+ years ago that there was a cabin built on top of a Spanish cabin site if she recalled right. I was able to locate that site but to be truthful I do not know that it could be located today as there was not much left 20 years ago. George Thompson's book carries pictures of Spanish ruins in the area and of course I located that years ago and my wife and I have spent much time there playing around with metal detectors with not anything of value being found. If my wife finds a square nail she is as happy as can be and that is all that counts. The ruins are still in what I would call very good condition with the rock walls going up about half way and the walls are at least two foot thick. There was two buildings of good size there and I am not sure about some other small structure that was connected to one of the buildings. There is also another gold mine that Beall located himself and started mining. The shaft started colapsing and it got to scaring him so bad that he finnally just backed out and left it as was. I have not been able to locate that mine but I was told by the daughter of Beall that there was still gold being taken out when he actually backed out and left it. My whole point here is that why would Beall say the gunfight took place in the area of Bear River when he was doing much mining in the area. Of course the area of the Bear covers many hundreds of square miles. Would he not want to keep people away from the area. Now I will say that I was told by Beaula Beall I think that her dad mined all up and down the north slope area and then I think that he may have ended up over in the area of the gunfight. Beaula told me that her dad had once rode up into there yard on a horse and pitched a small section of log down into there yard that had Rhoades Mine carved into it. Anyway I do not really care one bit about where the gunfight actuall took place at. If you have inside information concerning where it actually took place at then I would say good for you. Why would you have anything to do with helping put out false information. As to the part in Boren's book in which you supplied much info I thought it interesting that it was put in the book that the gunfight expedition was put together by Hathenbruck. I beg to differ on that fact but then I do not have the inside infoe. If this was the fact then it would also be suggested that Hathenbruck did not know where the mine was. I believe it was as he said, ~I felt if I ever returned my bones would still be there." Surely he could have made a map that all could have understood and followed. People are still searching right? Do you believe in the details are not?
Now for Buth Cassida. I will have to take it that you have read Art Davidson's book Sometimes Cassida. Boren suggested that book in one of his books. I was able to locat the book and I will have to say I have not reqreeted it. The author was Davidson's son from the historic gunfight and well just read it. In the book it does go into the accident in which Butch was killed at Leads. The author states that Butch and Charles Kelly the Utah historian and author who was the author of The Outlaw Trail put the whole story together to throw everyone off. The reason was because Charles Kelly was able to locate Butch with the info he was receving when he was trying to write the book about Butch. Everyone with there bigmouths where telling Kelly just to go to Butch and talk to him personelly. Well Butch figured if Kelly could do this then it was only a matter of time before the law would be following. So the plan went into effect and presto we have a funeral with gasket and the works. Butch is again dead and all is happy. Now Randy I may be off a little bit here but my reading is correct. I am not really trying to make a point here about the gunfight or Butch. I really could care less. I do find Western history interesting. Of course the Rhoades Mine is history weather people realize it or not. I will have to say that it is my job to prove that the mine is fact and not a figure of someone's imagination. Stories such as this do not last forever if not true and surrounded by facts. We can look at the Bible and say the same.
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Re: Shootout at Scout Lake or where ever?

Post Number:#159  Postby Randy W Lewis » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:53 am

lol we need to talk on the phone...lol

mirror or mirror,,, cabin or cabins,,

and more....Randy W Lewis
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Re: Shootout at Scout Lake or where ever?

Post Number:#160  Postby Randy W Lewis » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:55 am

Scout lake sounds as good as any......lol


ok...Randy W Lewis
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Re: Towats, Tobats, Shinob

Post Number:#161  Postby Florida Photographer » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:48 am

~Is Towats and Tobats the same. Could be a variation of Tovats."

Just an educated guess, but i think they are just variations in spelling of the same thing. White man has always had trouble writing and spelling what Native Americans are saying.
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Re: Towats, Tobats, Shinob

Post Number:#162  Postby Florida Photographer » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:58 am

Hmm, can't edit . . . My last post was meant for bookcliff48
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Towats

Post Number:#163  Postby Lostaslost » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:16 pm

Florida Photographer, I have never read or saw anything except Towats. I have all the books period. Is it not odd that Towats lived or dwelled in Carre-Shinob but it is argued that the Ute Indians did not use the word Carre-Shinob. I have seen the word used in books that dealt with other people besides Caleb so I do believe that Carre-Shinob is for real. In Mike Hawkeye Pickett's book Treasure Hunters Field Notebook there is some interesting material concerning the Seven Cities of Cibola and where only the Medicine Man or Chief was aloud to enter the area of Spanish Caches. It was these peoples duty alone to make the site toboo. They also were to hand down the exact location to there successor. Is this guy getting his information from the Rhoades Mine stories or what? If he lives in this area I have never heard of him and that can be possible. This book has some good information in it and it can be suggested.
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Re: Towats

Post Number:#164  Postby Robert Gifford » Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:17 am

Interesting, but I have met several Uintah Indians that have in the past used the term Carrie , or Carrie-Shinob.

One example would be Chunky's Dad. He talked to me about the Carrie over 30 years ago. He said that is dad had passed certain stories of the Carrie-Shinob to him when he was a young man, which goes back to the begining of the 20th century.

I can only verify these personal conversations with persons that have been here a long time before I got here on ferma terra. I just wish I had asked Chunky's dad if his father told him where he heard the term Carrie, or Carrie-Shinob.

In any case it goes way back before the arguments that I have read on ezboard.

Prospect well.....

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Re: Towats

Post Number:#165  Postby oneeyedjack » Thu May 21, 2009 7:10 am

I have heard dry fork is a possible prospect, I am from the area have spent a lot of years listening to stories and searching myself.
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one eyed jack

Post Number:#166  Postby roughrockxxx » Thu May 21, 2009 11:23 am

what the picture in your avator?
The only shot we have is the small picture.
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one eyed jack

Post Number:#167  Postby oneeyedjack » Fri May 22, 2009 10:47 am

That is rock creek by Yellow pine campground
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Rock Creek!

Post Number:#168  Postby Lostaslost » Wed May 27, 2009 3:56 am

So Jack was you able to locate the 1856 Pine Mine there as described by George Thompson. I have also played in the area looking for this mine and then the Mine of the Virgin Silver. I never actully have walked Rock Creek there and or even camped at Yellow Pine. I kind of stay away from the mines that have supposedly been found. I have played all in the area. Have you ever found any soapstone at Soapestone. While prospecting there I came on to some there. It is naturally easy to see as it is busted up and chalky looking there on the ground. Pick it up and you can mark really good on rock with it. I would think that what I found would be to soft for what is used today at the schools. I will probley be working in the area again this year.

Have a good one
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Rock Creek!

Post Number:#169  Postby oneeyedjack » Wed May 27, 2009 6:28 am

Have searched rock creek a lot, have found a few old mines in that area but none that I have any intention of looking further into, was however wondering what is the story behind the paint mine near kidney lake.
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Paint Mine!

Post Number:#170  Postby Lostaslost » Wed May 27, 2009 4:47 pm

I guess those in the area could tell you more about it than I can. I have never been there to look for that mine. I have heard that many has been there. I think it is marked on maps. I have played a couple of tiems at the Kidney lake area. There is one mine that is colapsed that is clearly visable there on the side where you drop down. Lots of gold and silver stories. Up above there as you are entering just a couple and or maybe 3 miles back there is lots of claims laid out. I guess it is all still claimed. I spent some time searching at the moon Lake area. Been there several different times and pitched a tent there and explored around for a few days each time. I never carried for the area myself. To many bugs and or nats there at the lkae swarming.

For the Paint mine I am sure I saw it on maps. Just take and calculate a Lat and Long and walk to it using your GPS. Ought to be fun. Be careful in all of this area as the reservation boundries is very close by when going into these areas. Lots of stories concerning Bear Wallow. Stay out and away. It is my understanding that it is still guared today.

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Paint Mine!

Post Number:#171  Postby PSursa » Thu May 28, 2009 12:10 am

The paint mine is easy to get to from the top but the gate is locked from the bottom. It is still claimed by the Birds I think. Jimmy Bird had it and mined it for years. Its nowhere near the reservation boundaries. The only thing to be afraid of there is you may see a Bear in the area, I did but from a distance.
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Paint Mine!

Post Number:#172  Postby oneeyedjack » Fri May 29, 2009 5:46 am

Thanks I also saw the other posts on this forum about the paint mine, I do see it marked on the map is a road that almost goes all the way there but don't know its condition or if it is closed.
Went to lower pole creek yesterday to look around but started to rain so had to turn around but was easy getting in there.
I do plan on going back to Pole Creek I have found the smelter near the sinks and have heard there are others, I also seen the mine holes above the sinks not sure who has claim to that am planning to go to Vernal soon I think just to do some research on claims.
I also looked at yellow stone a lot near swift current creek, a friend of mine a long time ago found a riffle barrel stuck in a tree it has been removed since then and its direction mostly forgot, I just have a general idea but it is near swift creek and yellowstone.
Moon lake I looked there but not for years, never liked moon lake much, I plan on going up there a lot this summer to look around have a lot of areas I want to check out.
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Re: The Secret of Carre-Shinob

Post Number:#173  Postby zelph » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:37 pm

Whyte Eagle wrote:An excerpt from the book ~The Gold Of Carre-Shinob~ by Kerry Ross Boren

Chapter 21
The Secret of Carre-Shinob

I HAVE TRIED, IN THIS BOOK, TO REVEAL some unknown secrets about the Lost Rhoades Mines. I have revealed stories of men and mines that never were imagined when Footprints in the Wilderness was published in 1971, or even when it was re-issued with new information appended in 1980. But I reserved the greatest secret for last.

First, however, some clarification is needed. In virtually every account of the mines over the years, the Sacred Mine has been equated with Carre-Shinob, when in fact they are separate in every respect. Indeed, there are two sacred mines-Sacred Mine #1 and Sacred Mine #2. The latter, situated in the upper Rock Creek drainage. we have already discussed. It was likely associated anciently with another sacred site, most probably an Aztec temple.

But Sacred Mine #1 and Carre-Shinob are not associated with Rock Creek. Without exception Carre-Shinob - ~Where the Great Spirit Dwells~ -has always been associated by the Indians with a sacred site north of Whiterocks River, in the area of the upper Yellowstone River drainage. Whenever Caleb Rhoades made an excursion to the Sacred Mine #1, he went first to Whiterocks where he borrowed pack mules from Jimmie Reed and picked up Happy Jack to guard his back trail.



Whyte Eagle, does this post look familiar? ;=) :~d
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Re: The Gold of Carre Shinob

Post Number:#174  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:28 pm

I believe I posted that as a reference to the discussion of the thread, but just because I quoted the chapter where Boren claims to have gone to the Carre-Shinob doesn't mean I've read his book. I do remember browsing that chapter for the sake of the conversation of the thread,
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Re: The Gold of Carre Shinob

Post Number:#175  Postby zelph » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:35 pm

Whyte Eagle wrote:I believe I posted that as a reference to the discussion of the thread, but just because I quoted the chapter where Boren claims to have gone to the Carre-Shinob doesn't mean I've read his book. I do remember browsing that chapter for the sake of the conversation of the thread,


You quoted him extensively. You must have read what you said.

In another thread you said:

Re: Where's the Ark?

Post Number:#136 Postby Whyte Eagle » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:29 pm
BTW ... Although you would love for it to be true, I have no connections whatsoever with Boren, never met him and probably never will ... I haven't even read any of his material ...

You quoted his work/material. You had to have read it. not good Whyte ;=)
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