Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Discussion of the ever elusive location we've come to know as Carre-Shinob ... is it fact or legend?

Who Ordered,Who Burned The Codex's, And When?

Post Number:#26  Postby FEMF » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:20 pm

Can anyone tell me who ordered the burning of the Codex's? Who burned them and When?
Thank you in advance.
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That would have been

Post Number:#27  Postby Tnwoods » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:20 pm

The Church.
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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#28  Postby Kanabite » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:21 pm

FEMF wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can anyone tell me who ordered the burning of the Codex's? Who burned them and When?
Thank you in advance.
FEMF


i have read that the burning of the codices practice was more of a military action , and it started early on . shortly after the practice was forbidden by the Church and the friars were ordered to preserve any of them for the church .i have the reference kicking around here someplace ;=)
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I have a book somewhere

Post Number:#29  Postby Tnwoods » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:22 pm

That I bought while in Mexico that was an account by some Bishop at the time. Haven't read it in 10 years - but I'm pretty sure it said the church ordered the codex burning as part of eliminating the local religion. Same as they took apart buildings to use the rocks to build churches. I think the only Codex that survived was saved by a priest. I might be completely wrong - my memory gets iffyer every year...LOL
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Codex's!

Post Number:#30  Postby Lostaslost » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:23 pm

Anything that was kept in writing was kept at Santa Fe, Mexico City and then Spain. There was three copies made of everything. During the Indian revolt of 1680 and at Santa Fe everything in records was burned by the Indians. This included nearly all records of any type along with maps that had to be drawn out by the map makers that where sent to all of the mines. In Mexico City nearly all records have been lost due to floods and fires. At Spain nearly all records are intack all thought scattered about. I think I read that you could find recordes from the 1500's right along with the records of the 1700's in the same piles. This is where Kenworthy got all of his Spanish Symbol stuff allong with the rules and regulations.

Dealing with recordes of this sort anything today is still possible to find. For instance in the book that I just finished there was Marcus's diary was found in a small church. This was kept by a Priest in this small Mexican town. The author took several pictures but they actually showed nothing as this was not a proffesional cameria. They set up an oppointment to return the next day and take pictures of every page in the diary. the next morning they returned and could not find the priest. After awhile they enter the priest's office and he was laying in a pool of blood and had been shot. The two Americans fled the site. Later the author had an individual that he knew hold him down while each page was taken out and throwed into the fire. The individual that did this was involve in a relastate deal in Phoneix Arizona and he did not want his deal to fall thru due to a historic site that Marcus had stayed at which was right at this guys relastate property. History burnt up by a idiot and for his love of money. This diary had Marcus signature in it.

No one should be dumfounded on anything that can be found even today. Anything is possible.

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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#31  Postby Kanabite » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:24 pm

Tnwoods wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That I bought while in Mexico that was an account by some Bishop at the time. Haven't read it in 10 years - but I'm pretty sure it said the church ordered the codex burning as part of eliminating the local religion. Same as they took apart buildings to use the rocks to build churches. I think the only Codex that survived was saved by a priest. I might be completely wrong - my memory gets iffyer every year...LOL


dang you TN your are going to make me have go read this stuff again lol- some place on the net said that only 4 pre Colombian codices were still in existence . every thing else had been influenced by the Spanish , tainted in some way . i want to say that the codex Rios was the one that talks about the religious ideals of the Aztecs , and that one is now in the Vatican library
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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#32  Postby Lostaslost » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:25 pm

Trigrace for some reason there are people who do not understand the story of the Carrie and the other mines that are in the Uintas. There are many. The mine you talk about that is on the eastern side is supposedy a Scared Mine. You must understand that this mine was not the Carrie. I guess there was a mine and the story got to circulating that this was the Carrie. Maybe due to the amount of visible gold there anyone and all started saying this was the Carrie. Now I want to ask you just who else would have wanted to get these stories going also? Was there anyone who would have gladly wanted to see the stories going and circulating? Who was trying to keep the location completly hidden from all? Who was concerned by all of this. Lets see here, on the right day of the year and at the right time you can stand at Whiterocks and see the gleaming gold. Trigrace if this was true you would have everyone in this whole region standing and looking for a full year and they would all be praying that there would never be a cloudy day to come during this full year period of time. Who has stood out there staring for a full year? You can bet that there is people who have stood and looked. Who wouldn't?

As for Butch I personally believe he had actually found the real Carrie. The Utes supposedly looked up to him because he was able to follow the Trail of the Anchients. Also there is a story that Butch had buried a treasure in Southern Utah. It was said by a family that this Gold was not gold coins and or raw gold but a treasure of some sort. If I recall they said it was gold cups and such of some sort. Now we can all have our opinions on these stories that have ben floating around. Some will say they are BS and others will believe whole heartedly. I am a believer. Now does this mean I believe everything that I read? Well I just told you that the story of the gold gleaming at Whitrocks was BS.
There is many more stories that are total BS also.

Now for there being no stories coming from anybody but the modern day authors concerning any kind of treasure, this is BS also. I am nearly fairly confident that somewhere in Gale Rhoades books he said that Caleb had said that there was wonderful things at his mine. Now I guess if I ever walk into a mine and grab a huge gold nugget and heft it up I will also say that there is wonderful things in the mine I just found. Do you think that this is what was meant by Caleb when he said this?

Caleb gave his oath and he kept it very well. The Carrie, The Bringham Young Mine and the Sacred Mine number 2 which does have another name also has been hidden for ever. That is until I found the Carrie. I was the first person to ever find it and then it had tons of material blowed over it. To this day I can not actually believe that the Utes did this to a mine that was so scared to them. One thing for sure if they thought it would just go away from my mind they made a mistake. Not ever will that happen.

Now for some thought here when dealing with the Carrie. Again as I have stated many times this is also the Josephine and the Lost Rhoades Mine. Caleb was going to break his oath and I know it for a fact. I can only imagine the torture he was putting himself thru. I mean guys, Caleb did give his oath to God and Bringham Young that he would never tell a soul. For the most part this was kept true but when he just out of the clear blue younder figures he will go to mineing it, here he made his mistake and he had to live with it. He didn't live did he? He also suffered for a long time. After his death I think the reservation boundries where changed with in three months. As for Hathenbruck he said he felt if he had ever returned to this mine his bones would still be resting there. He knew that the mine was being watched and it is still being watched to this day. Well I know it is not being watched during the winter nor does it have to be.

So now we have the Utes who say, Stupid white man look up high and mine down low. Where are you going to look? We can go on and on about the different things that are said like this but I will leave it totally alone. I mean what in the hell do I actually know? I do know this much, the mine will never be found again by anyone else. There is no way anyone can go and find it today. Yes I know exactly where it sits but for the others if they could ever figure out where it was at and or how to search for it they would never find it. They can not. For myself I could not believe that it was still there just as the evidense said. Lets just say I was very lucky. The other two mines I have not tried to get anywhere near them. I guess I will stay totally away from them but the very next mine that I find and see it is blown up then me and the Utes are going to have major problems. For my next mine being found it want be to much longer now. I have full confidence that I can do it again. It was not luck. I just study a whole lot.

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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#33  Postby JB Lapoint » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:26 pm

maybe it was the ute tribal branch called the US forest service who blowed up your mine
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utes

Post Number:#34  Postby JB Lapoint » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:27 pm

are you even sure its the utes behind any of it

lost you refer to things attributed to Caleb saying but this comes out of the same books as all the other information, there is no one who can say fer sure what CBR thought its all heresay
is any of it true......all the written material is heresay, 2nd or third hand info and has been retold a thousand times and changed each time
the bullock mine is said to be the pine mine if that is true and what CBR was said to have told people about then why has no one gone up and tried to reopen it or start fresh?.....because there is always the doubt that its just a story and not true.......who would not invest a couple years to open the richest mine there is
there are no signs...THIS IS THE PINE MINE.....up there, or MINE OF THE LOST SOULS and so on its all speculation
just my 2 cents

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Bishop Landa 1562

Post Number:#35  Postby Tnwoods » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:28 pm

Relacion de las Cosas de Yucatan:

Bob, I'll save you some reading - Franciscan Friar Diego de Landa was the man who on behalf of himself and to smack Christianity in the Maya - personally burnt all the codexs and idols he could get his mitts on to. However he took some notes - which he used at his trial when he was recalled to Spain in 1567. And had some translation done I'm sure.

Apparently he had a hankering for holding Maya prisoners, and some other unspeakable tortures - even the Franciscans thought he went too far. Not far enough - because Friar Landa returned in 1573 as Bishop of the region. I'm sure the local population was thrilled.

I just skimmed through the beginning - it is a long tough read - and I am not as into it as I was then.

But - Monkey see monkey do. While the Jesuits and the Indians may not have had too many problems - the Franciscans seemed to have been a whole different ball game, and bent on destroying all sembelence of the old religions and customs.
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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#36  Postby Lostaslost » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:29 pm

Tinwoods I thought that the Jesuits where brought back to Spain due to all of the crimes that they had dealt out to the Indians. Yes you certainly put that there was torture and yes it did continue when the Jesuits where replaced by the Franciscans. The Jesuits where also replaced because there was other people involved than just Spaniards. There where some German and other Central European countries Jesuits and the King was concerned about how people outside of Spain could be loyal to the King. He was concerned that all taxes where not being paid. The order to bring back all of the Jesuits was dated on June 24th 1567.

JB you just so happen to believe that after hundreds of years the Carrie was found by me and in a period of 3 weeks the National Forest just so happens to find this mine also and blows it up. No the National Forest would not have blown THIS MINE up. This was history plan and simple and there was something right inside this cave that no one could have moved it and they certainly would not have blown tons of material over its entre. I said I had seen and talked to Utes a couple of times there in the general area. I said that it was obvious that one of two Utes that I ran into during 2005 was upset. He was not a fool and he very well knew what I was doing. I am quiet sure he had already received a report from the Utes who was watching that someone was searching and he knew exactly what he was doing. Now you can doubt this forever and I do not give a hoot in hell. I am just saying what happened. That is it.

Now if someone wants to say that Gale Rhoades spent his lifetime searching for the mine and he had absolutly no information coming from any records that his family had and or what he could have gotten out of other diarys then so be it. I am saying that Gale knew even more than what he put in print. In fact I believe that all of the authors did.

Now for the Pine Mine. Let make this clear. This mine was for real. I will get to a full blown search for this mine when I finsih with what I am cureently dealing with. I have been into this story before. There is some absolute BS here floating around with this mine. We have to many PIne Mines and then too the same goes for the Carries that there is supposed to be. I am saying that I know where the actual location of the Pine Mine is. I am saying the general area and it will take some time to find it if it is still open. If it is closed off and or blown up then this is another unsolved issue. Yes supposedly the Bullock was the Pine Mine. I have also heard that there was a Pine Mine in the area of the Mine Of the Lost Souls. Then Geroge Thompson goes into detail on an individual that found and mined the Pine Mine and he said the Pine Tree was destroyed also. Now why would someone name at least 3 mines the Pine Mine? Somebody is totally Lost here and yes it could be me. I will believe what I believe and I think I have a very good lead on the Pine Mine. What I will say is that Caleb left this mine to his brother John and he said, "You will want for nothing the rest of your life." Have you read anywhere of a individual finding a mine such as this in the Uintas yet? If it has been found then it has surely been kept quiet.

JB concerning this Pine Mine there is legal papers dealing with this mine. It was legally left to Calebs brother John. If you have the books then it is there. There is nothing in that paperwork that describs that mine as being where the Bullock Mine is located. As for me I actually started making a search for this mine but at this time I was hard at putting together all of the info I had dealing with the Carrie. I figured it out at that time and I just left the area of the Pine Mine. I have never returned. Then after one full year the Carrie was located. I had started the search during 2005 and in 2006 the mine was located. I continued with the search not realizing that the mine actually had explosives sit off up above it and tons of material came down on the entrance. I searched until I could actually sit down on top of the mine site and have Utes come up and hide in the timber. This was in Aug of 2007 and I have not returned.

During the fall of 2006 I actually found The gold of Death Tree while blackpowder hunting with my son. We where chasing deer thru the timber when I found the tree and it clearly said Los Oro de Murete and or the Gold of Death. I naturally froze when I read Oro. I removed my camera right then out of my dayback and took picture. It was snowing then. Then in spare time during the 2007 season when I was not dealing with the Carrie I would follow this trail of The Gold of Death. I took many pictures and GPS locations. During this year (2008) this was the only search that I made concerning and dealing with mines. If nothing else I do have many pictures. On other locations on this Treasure site here I have stated I have more #8's than any other signs and symbols. Just litterly right now I have read that this number stands for treasure. I am going to pull out all of my books and look again at the 8 and see if I can actually see where it is stating that this figure actaully stands for treasure. As for its meaning I think that this makes all of the since in the world to me. Naturally since I am following this trail it would if you know what I mean.

For all of you that may be concened let me make a suggestion to you. Buy the book, (Treasure Maps of the Superstitions. The Peralta Stone Maps show a route to a new and different treasure than the Lost Dutchman's Mine by Amy Mitchelle Mosier.) This book is written by a young woman author. She has much information that will help any and all prospectors. I am not thru with this book yet an I gurantee all of you it is well worth all of the money......I read about this book a couple of years back but I was unable to find it. Amazon said that they had not received the book and they did not know if they ever would. I made a couple of searches on the internet and I ran searches from the computer and it said that they had searched 80K book dealers and was unable to find it. I finally found Amy Mosier's site and she had published the book and had major problems in getting her book. Well she evidently finally got it and this dealer is out of Arizonia and can be ordered from there. Amy talks about Kenworthy in her book and she said that Kenworthy made off with 4 million from the Dutchman's Mine. I am thinking that this is where she got all of her information on her signs and symbols. There is a history of the Coranado Expedition given and also concerning the Jesuits and the Franciscons. Again I am not finished with this book yet. As for the Stones I guess that I never knew that these stones had carvings on both sides. I thought that thes stones where individual stones. Live and learn! I always thought that these stones would lead you to the Carrie as supposedly they dealt with the Montezuma's Treasure. The main reason I thought this was due to the horse stone with Cobolo carved on it. This was telling me that this was showing a map of the full sized stone carving of the White Stalion that supposedly sit at the Montezuma's Treasure site and or the Big LOU. I am saying that there was supposedly a full blown carving out of rock that was life size. Roger Snow had wrote about the White Stalion and I communicated with him and he said that the White Stalion was God's Horse. He said he knew nothing about it supposedly being in the Uintas but only in New Mexico. Gale Rhoades wrote about the White Stalion and it was supposedly destroyed. This was supposedly a clue to the Rhoades Mine also. He could never find it and if it was destroyed then I guess it would never be found meaning the White Stalion. Lets just say that my belife is that The White Stalion was God's Horse and I thought and still do that Towats is our God also. Have any of you ever read that it is possible that the Ark is hidden at the Carrie. Towats will kill you!

I will get the address for Amy's book and post it here. Please be careful when searching the Peralta Stone internet sites as this is where I picked up and or got a bad virus on my computer. If something starts downloading on your computer that says Virus Protection 2008 shut down your computer right then. Do not try clicking on you computer to stop the downlaods as it is asking you questions. Shut your computer down right then.

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lost has tunnel vision

Post Number:#37  Postby JB Lapoint » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:29 pm

again the first question are you sure the utes know anything......if you answer yes then you are indeed lost.......if the utes knew then there is no use in looking because they have already got it and spent it

did gale have first hand information.....again no he had hand me down stuff.......prospector has the same kind off stuff from the FWC side.......5 people see an accident and when questioned they all saw something different.....did CBR write a diary.......there is no information on one.....daniels was alleged to have written one but has anyone here ever seen it and does it really say what it has been quoted to have in books
its all a story the more it is told the more that is added and left out and pretty soon you have a fantasic story or nothing

so the carre-shinob....what is it....is it a mine or a tomb......aaron daniels was alledged to have been taken to the carre but there is no mention of tomb just stacks of bars.........boren/rhoades in the books have been behind it being a tomb connected by tunnel to a mine and only boren true or not comes away with any kind of description to back it up....again true or false.......gifford sezs mine or at least the place he calls carre is a mine......so that is not the carre.........you say you found the carre but nothing that backs that up.......no pictures from any of the ones who said they were there, boren if you beleave him is the only one who gives anything as far as what is inside.......i and many of the folks here would have to explore something before we just come out and say that THIS IS IT
you and gifford have not gone into any detail as to what or how big or small the place was....when i say details i dont mean everything i mean jst a few tidbits that anyone who has been there would know i think it would suprise you as to who else has been to that hole and comparing notes you figure out just what hole it is and not claim it is something it may not be.......hate to say it but the burrows cave story is easier to beleave then what you are saying

ok now that off my chest carre-shinob........there are words inalot of different languages that are close in sound to this and i think that is where the confussion comes from you say tomato and i say tamato

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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#38  Postby Tnwoods » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:30 pm

As it happens a lot more than I'd care to admit, but I was under the impression the Jesuits were recalled for illegal mining operations. A secret sweep of the new world so as to catch them with the goodies, so to speak. And if the Franciscans were in Mexico in 1564 - I guess that was where the King started switching sects around first. The King was probably suspicious for quite a while before he had them all collected up and exiled. Got to have your ducks in a row when dealing with the Pope.

I also get the impression from reading historical accounts - the Jesuits were not nice to the locals - but were a lot nicer compared to the Franciscans.

As to who named what when - I don't have the slightest clue. No matter how you slice it - the Church destroyed any written records they could find, along with anything else they deemed "non-Christian". I think there was a whole lot of cheating the King out of his $$ going on. As I was looking through the book on Bishop Landa - they had Mayan maps of all of Mexico - had every city and that cities ruler and all the roadways. Into the bonfire it went.
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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#39  Postby Lostaslost » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:31 pm

JB fishing is going to get you nothing. I have said what I intend on saying and that is it. If I was make believeing I could tell you a real wopper. I do not think I am telling anything unbelievable. What I say and I have not actually seen is my beliefs as for as this being Montezuma's Treasure. I do think this is very possible. As for the Utes taking it all then you believe absolutly nothing in any story and this is plan to see.
Now what you need to do and I have said it to many people. Read Dale Bascom's book and be sure to concentrate on his chapter on the Sacred Mine. I have talked to Dale just a little bit concerning this story and his map. I was telling my story before Dale ever came out with his book. I have told Dale some things concerning his mine but then too I have never told him where the actual location is.

So now I have to ask you a good question here and I do not want you to say well this is different. If your relatives and we will say your great grandpa left a diary would you call it a pack of lies? You would have to say that it was a pack of lies as it would only be your so called hand me down stuff. I am telling you right now that I consider anything that Hathenbruck wrote is nothing but the absolute truth. I would tell that to Randy Lewis's face.

Now, am I sure the Utes blew up the entrance to the Carrie. I am sure it was covered with tons of material. I am positive on that. Now do I actually know that the Utes did this? No, I did not actually see them sit the charge off. Now you have me wondering if you did this. I think you blew the Carrie up and you are showing complete disbelief because you do not want to be blamed for blowing the richest gold mine in the world up. You did it didn't you? Prove to me that you did not. I want to see the proff.

JB I have dealt with this planly before but I will again. It is real easy here that is it certainly was for me when I went to studing it. Now for this to be any other way we have to have a great conspiracy with all of the authors trying to pull a real slick one here. Take and look at the Big LOU Map. You either belive it and or not. This was not these local authors that made this up. I know you will be one who says that Karl Von Mueller made this up also. Nothing is real to you and I am quiet sure you have never been to church in your life because no one has any proff. Now take and make you a copy of this map and then take and read Boren's book, The Gold of the Carie-Shinob. Go to the last chapter and read about Boren's visit to the Carrie. When reading this ask yourself if you see anything familiar between the two. Take a High-Lighter and Hi-Lite the stuff that is on the map. Then take and wad this up and toss it and say this is total BS.

JB it is all BS. Never doubt this and never believe one word I tell you. You will be a whole lot better off doing it this way. I do not even know why I deal with this. The only reason is that George Thompson wanted to make the search fun for all. I was told this by one of George's personal friends. I am saying it is true also so everyone will continue the search. I did not blow that entrance up. There is still two mines left and I guess they are wide open althoought on the second Sacred Mine Boren does say there is a trick on entering it. I am quiet sure of this although I have never actually been right there. It is flat out to dangerous and this goes also for the Bringham Young Mine. But let me guess, just tell you where the mines are located and you will go right to them. Then you will give me exactly half of what you carry out. You and everyone else can forget this deal as it never will happen. I found the mine and I left it. Since I last left after the National Forest rode up on me and stayed hidden in the timber me and my son have never been back. We may never return as I have full intentions on finding what I want at some other location. Then JB if I can worm your address out of you I will then send you a picture of your gold and or gold bars. I already know though JB you will say it is BS also. Well it was computer done.

Enough JB. Do not waste your time ever hunting the Rhoades Mine. For anyone to find it they will havc to first believe fully in what they are doing. Otherwsie it is a waste of time.

Everything I have wrote I fully believe to be true. For any part that I wrote concerning my son and I is absolutly true.

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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#40  Postby Lostaslost » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:31 pm

Concerning the book talked about on my post # 809. Treasure Maps of the Superstitions, Ther Peralta Stone Maps can be ordered from:
http://www.Southwestpublications.com
Mitshell Waite
Southwest Publications
3836 E. Dewberry Ave.
Meza AZ 85266-1825

I am saying that anybody that is dealing with Signs and Symbols should have this book. It also has much history in it concerning the Spanish from the begining of Montezuma's and Cortez's time. It does not go into much detail nor can it but it is a good outline of the things that happened. Anyone dealing with the Peralta Stones and or The Lost Duchmen should have this book.

Then you can order a DVD concerning the Peralta Stones from:
Desertusa
PH # 877-266-3414
Jim@desertusa.com

Secrets of the Stone Tablets, In Search of Montezuma's Treasure - I'm quiet sure that Kanabite Bob has this DVD. If not he definitly needs this one. These treasure hunters from California used these stones to take them right to Kanab UT in search for this treasure. I am glad I bought this DVD although I do not have any experience with this area that the DVD is dealing with. It is 80 minutes long.

Lost
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Lost

Post Number:#41  Postby JB Lapoint » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:32 pm

A diary.....a bonafide hand me down diary is worth alot.......is there one from caleb...dunno thats why i say it is heresay until it is proven there is one. Daniels diary who has seen it and if so is it real? thats what i am trying to say more then anything is whats real and what is heresay
As far as fishing goes i real good at fishing with a rod and reel.......details.....the kind that only some one who has been in the hole would know like did you see the mark on the left side wall at 20 paces and they come back with like the one at 22paces on the right wall you mean........i am not asking for anything about the area or out side of the mine....inside stuff that only you and who ever has been there before would know

So i do not take everything written as gospel i take it with a grain of salt.....i have the books and have read them all.......when i search i use all that information and try to figure what fits where.......boren beleave him or not tells about things inside the tomb/mine but gives nothing specific about the outside.........and if you will that is what i am asking/fishing for just some interior details or a feature or so that tells us more then i found it and thats it

If asking for a little detail of the interior is asking to much then i dont know what to say

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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#42  Postby Lostaslost » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:33 pm

JB if you have read all of my post dealing with my find then you know I did not find anything on the outside of the mine other than the vent. This is how the mine was actually found. I have been told that all signs and symbols where removed during the 1940's and also Dale Bascom's book says this also. The signs and symbols where supposedly removed by a direct decident of Caleb Rhoades. Now I di find direct evidence of this but what I take as evidence you would just laugh so lets forget that part. After I backed out of the vent I then went towards the light in the best manner I could. My first try at getting there was not successful and I had to back out and move in another direction. Then if you have actually been there then I will say that along that wall I did not see a thing. I wanted to see only where the light was entering at. This was the entrance. Now as far as what was suppose to be in that area I do believe that there should have been a date of 1780. I feel I knew where that date was placed. I did not find it although you could hunt that date for 10 years before finding it if it is actually where I thought it was. As I stated Dale Bascom had told me that he searched for the date on a tree. I searched for the date along the wall. After I found the mine there was no more searching for a date. I was told by an individual that I have no idea who he was that there should have been a heart right by the entrance and or along the wall. I did not see this nor was I looking for this. I was told this after the mine was located. I was communicating with this individual on the internet and everything was supposedly secure. I have no idea who he was and there was no E_Mail address. My belief is that I was talking with Bore but I do not know this in any way. That is just the feeling I got. He seemed to know what he was talking about and he like you had no idea who I was and or the location of the mine and or cave.

Now for Boren one thing is definitly for sure. He did definitly know the area the mine and or mines laid in. I know this for a fact and no I will not relay this info. JB my find is a sure thing. I know this for a fact. I could confirm it and no one would doubt the info. I have said all I can say and I am thinking right now that I will never talk about this subject again. As I have stated I have not been back to the site during this year. I was searching another mine and or mines. I am happy with doing this and that is all that matters and I am learning something here. So for more questions please leave it alone. Hopefully I am here on this subject.

For anyone who wants to call me a lier this is fine with me. In fact at this point I would welcome all to start spreading the word that that is exactly what I am. I want it that way and this is the best. I have said way to much as it is.

Lost
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Lost as Lost maybe you need to rule out Bad Luck 1st...

Post Number:#43  Postby Florida Photographer » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:34 pm

Hey Lostaslost, hope you are not freezing to death up there. About this mine thing. I don't know about you, but I have the worst luck and/or timing in the world. I always wanted to see that mine up on Hoyt. One year before I manage to get out there, the Forest Service or whoever buried it forever. It is gone and I can't find anyone who will give me the straight story on it. Did that door ever exist? Did anyone clear it back out to said door? There are people on this forum who know, but haven't bothered giving the rest of us the straight story on that cave/mine. Come one somebody please. That mine is gone forever. So please, please, give us the straight story on it. Please? Mr. June could you please tell us what the deal was. Was it all fabricated before you came to posses it? In other words were you duped? Or was it for real but nothing there? Could someone contact me in private and tell me what happened please?

Lostaslost, the reason I bring that mine on Hoyt up is what if some unlucky person had no knowledge of that mine and stumbled upon it 1 week before the Forest Service was scheduled to bury it? Can you imagine? Run around telling everyone you know about this great mine you discovered. Go gather up all you friends and take them up there 2 weeks to the day after you found it. Get there and it is gone! Completely and utterly buried. Wouldn't that be horrible? Your friends calling your story B.S. Mad at you for wasting their time and dragging them up there to see where someone had simply bulldozed a portion of the forest.

You know that I do not doubt your story. You know that. But please do yourself a favor. Please go to the Forest service and get a list of mines they blew and/or buried that summer. Don't tell them anything of course. Just get their list. Take it home and look at it and check to see whether or not your mine was on there list. They may have blown that mine without ever taking a look inside. Just some guys going out there and doing their job for the Forest Service. (or what ever government agency closes mines out in UT, I don't know who they are.)

That does not mean it was not the sacred mine. It would mean that the Forest Service or whoever blew it. Not the Utes.

Are you following me? I'm not being critical in any way. Just trying to help you resolve this.

Peace, FL
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Lost

Post Number:#44  Postby JB Lapoint » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:34 pm

OK i can live with that....my guts tell me what i wanted..........do i beleave all the stories, no not all i think there is a tomb/carre with a connecting tunnel to a mine.......i tend to beleave the BY mine....in that one carre and 2 sacred mines.......to much is written about the pine mine for it not to be true and a couple others also.

Now names......if a indian tells you the name of something in there language it going to be the same when written...Carre/keeri/see what im saying vern.......What is the indian name or original name for the different rivers in this area? or mountains and so on there may not be a Carre in the ute language but there may be something close that sounds similar

JB
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here lost

Post Number:#45  Postby Kanabite » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:35 pm

not fishing just trying to help ..... look through this list of public announcements about closures ... some are dated back to the time you speak of . could not find the list of what they did close but if you need to know i might could find out . http://ogm.utah.gov/amr/press.htm
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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#46  Postby sanpete » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:36 pm

Now all of this is very good reading. Just this morning I was in a book store in Utah county and bought "The Gold of Carre-Shinob" by boren. I had this book read about half of it and lost it. But I also looked at " Following The Legends" by Dale R. Bascom. I did not have the money both. I was going to ask on here about Bascom books. Now I think that my questions have been answered.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#47  Postby Terrible1 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:37 pm

sanpet... you should have bought Bascoms book. VERY good.
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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#48  Postby sanpete » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:38 pm

terrible1 wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanpet... you should have bought Bascoms book. VERY good.


Now you tell me. It seems I'm always a dollor short and a day lwte. Terribble1 I thankyou.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#49  Postby Lostaslost » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Sanpet Dale's book is not going anywhere. You can still buy this book anywhere so do not sweat it. It definitly is a good book and I am hoping to check some stuff out that he is showing in his book if I have time to get to it this year.

Lost
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Re: Origins of the name "Carre-Shinob" ...

Post Number:#50  Postby Terrible1 » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:39 pm

sanpet wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
terrible1 wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sanpet... you should have bought Bascoms book. VERY good.

Now you tell me. It seems I'm always a dollor short and a day lwte. Terribble1 I thankyou.


No worries. I have almost all of the books pertaining to the subject. Not trying to piss anyone off but in all honesty Borens books seems like a strange mix of fiction and geneology. They really didnt help me a whole lot. Gales books are fantastic reading and good information. Georges is the first everyone seems to read so I love it because it's written in such a way as to get you hooked. Schaeffers are well written but kinda regurgitate the same old info. Bascoms book is by far the best from a research/informational perspective. I dont have X marks the spot yet, my buddy has it and hasnt got it to me yet.
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