Anyone been there?

Discussion of the ever elusive location we've come to know as Carre-Shinob ... is it fact or legend?

Anyone been there?

Post Number:#1  Postby histreebum » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:30 pm

I could type for days with questions about Carrie. But i wil elaborate further in time. I have a question that only one who has been there can answer. But for now a question for the forum members that are willing to answer...where do you think the Carrie is? Im not going to judge in anyway, shape or form. General area or whatever. private or on the forum. doesnt matter to me..Anything helps
Thanks
Rob
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#2  Postby Lostaslost » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:17 pm

It is believed to be somewhere in the vast Uintas!
Hope that helps some.

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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#3  Postby dixiedesertman » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:45 am

In the hills west of lightning lake!
Yes, I am the infamous "Arizona Strip Searcher"
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#4  Postby histreebum » Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:10 am

Fair enough. The reason I ask is, with all the treasure seekers, hunters, adventurers and so on trompin through those hills, most of us with fairly valid info, a general area of search, and some skills in TH'in, why its not been found and more than likely exploited, (Which by the way im totally against, but I would be interested in seeing it of course), why its not to that point. Just curious......or maybe everybody has seen it and didnt tell me.
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#5  Postby Trigace » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:08 am

Several people claim to have been to the Carre:
1- Chief Walker and numerous other Indian leaders
2- Isaac Morley
3- Thomas Rhoades
4- Caleb Rhoades
5- Ben Bullock
6- Jesse Knight
7- Pete Miller
8-Aaron Daniels
9- Butch Cassidy
10- Tom Walker
11- Robert Gifford
12- "The Bishop" (See "Following the Legends")
13- And last but not least.....Lostaslost

Plus a few other wanna-be's from this forum and others, who have claimed to have been to the Carre. You probably have to wait in a line to get in to the Carre nowadays.
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#6  Postby histreebum » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:59 pm

Intresting bunch...Lost huh? didnt know that, all ive read on this forum and lost was never in my "people who know" file. anyway, I have a search area... its highly unlikely that the Carrie is anywhere near here but certain things have "prevented" me from goin there for about 3 yrs. I will have to get some courage to go back.....
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#7  Postby AL58 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:58 am

certain things have "prevented" me from goin there for about 3 yrs. I will have to get some courage to go back.....


Sounds like there may be an interesting story there. Is it something you would be willing to talk about?

Its going to be a long cold winter and a good story would help warm things up a little.

Hey... It doesnt hurt to ask...... :P
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#8  Postby Trigace » Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:54 am

Oh, I forgot to add one very important person to the list of Carre visitors:
Kerry Ross Boren! How did I overlook him?
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#9  Postby Lostaslost » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:27 pm

Trigace I will have to say to you that I am seeing a difference out of you now days. It looks like you seem to believe all of the authors just a bit more with your answers. It must really hurt. Ok now like I have said before everyone read and interprets differently I will put what I have thought about the above people and then you can follow with your answer to this problem. I am not saying you are wrong and or right here. I might learn something here if we do this and you and everyone else may also. Here we go!

First and foremost with this answer we do have a problem weather you see it and or not. It is complex and it causes me some concern. This is of course on my part. I am no different than anyone here and I want to know it all also. I want to know the full truth. Someway here in this problem it seems that we definitely have three Carries. Now I have been told, Lost you know that there is 7 Cities of Gold so maybe we really do have 7 Carries. It doesn’t jive to me and I am saying this with my research. Research can be proven right and or wrong. For me I am not willing to explain anything and I will let this part drop. To put my research gives away to much. Someone could figure it all out. This is a big part of my book and I can not do it.

So let’s just say that we have three Carries. Just for the fun of it. Trigace you know that there is supposedly one on the reservation. The Utes would like everyone to believe this. How can you search for gold on the reservation? Well it is evident that there is some that try to do just this. I did have an individual come to me once and he told me that he had found the Carrie on the reservation and he needed help. I bet he did! I told him I would have nothing to do with it in any way. It does get more interesting but I will leave it at this. Could be and as you know Trigace others will tell you the same thing. One little problem with this story on the reservation is that it is not supposed to be a mine but only a cave. Remember, The Mine of the Yutas! That’s right we have Garcia saying that the Utes actually had a mine. Could the Carrie-Shinob be that Mine? Well in the facts and so everyone here will understand at least part of it, Garcia was naturally telling about the Josephine. I am saying that I do honestly belive that the Carrie is the Josephine which does make it the Mine of the Yutas. Does this sound reasonable to anyone but me? Well there really is more to it than this, but again, I will leave it alone.

Then we have another mine found and this one is the one that Butch Cassidy and Joe Walker was supposed to have been in when it went to raining and Butch supposedly told Walker that this was the Carrie. Yep, gold was there and of course gold can be found at any gold mine. My guess is that this mine is the exact mine that Gifford found. Now Gifford and I have talked briefly. I have his book. I believe this book. Here is the problem I see. When talking with Gifford he had told me that there really was not much gold. The silver was another thing. What he described to me concerning the silver is just what I have visualized in my head with everything I have read. It was fabulous. There where other details that where discussed very briefly and I did have other questions that really do not concern this story. This concerned Chunky Murry. It was very interesting and very moving.

Ok, so what we have here are at least three people that basically walk right into the Carrie-Shinob with no kind of problem what so ever. Yep, Walker later on his on ran right into problems big time. No doubt it did hold some gold but my guess is that he just loaded up what was laying right at the entrance and it had evidently been thrown into the mine by the Utes. Any mine here will do as they just as soon to throw it in a lake. It surprises me that the Utes actually carried the gold back that Walker was trying to make off with and that they just did not throw it right into the deep part of the Green River.

Now for Butch I am telling you that I have seen things that have lead me to believe that he really could have been to the Carrie I found and or Cibola. I believe this with what I read and I am telling you it about blew my mind. I was at a loss and I really had problems believing he did such a thing as Butch was not a fool. He was a smart guy and better than most. I do not know what to believe. I am at a loss and will leave it at this.

As for the first 4 names given there is no doubt in my mind. Why even tell a lie concerning this group of people. Again there is some that disbelieve that Morley was ever at the Carrie. Boren said it so it has to be a lie. Again we got problems. We are going outside the story here. Some want to say that there were never any caverns under the Temple at Manti. The Ark could have never been placed there. Their direct decedents where there in the beginning and there is no kind of history for the caverns. Boren is lying!........Now I got a total different story from at least one other individual who had the same story about his family being right there in the beginning and Yes, there definitely was caverns right there at the Temple. Somewhere here we got a problem. Possibly just like the Carrie someone is covering and does not want the real story to leak out and I do understand this if true. I am just saying we have two different stories for the same place and at the same time. It sure confuses everything and I am telling you that I am caught right in the middle of this. Not at Manti but at the Carrie and it is due to all of the different stories floating around. The Utes have done a great job with it all and so have everyone else who ever gave there word to the Utes and the Mormon Church and really to God himself.

Now Trigace here on Bullock is where I have a problem. His mine was never the Carrie. People believe it to be the Pine Mine and this is incorrect. I know this! Silence also knows this. I have tried to make a deal with him on the Pine Mine but so far he is thinking that he has to be the only one who knows where it lies. Well just like he said on this site, he came on this site to call me a liar but he could not. I know where the Pine Mine lies and or at least I am surely thinking so. I have made searches and I will guarantee you all that someone else is searching also. The evidence is made clear and I am telling all that you had better be doing a better job than what you are doing. I now see this all over the Uintas and anyone in the know has to be seeing just what is going on. Don’t be so simple and think you are the only one who has common since in hunting a mine. Never have I left one clue to be followed up on and I never will.

Now again Trigace back to Bullock. I have wondered about the story in which he supposedly removed Black Hawks bones. He supposedly placed them in his mine is what was said. Yet here he is trying to get into that same mine. How does this make any since? So where did he place Black Hawk? Could it have been at the Carrie? Never have any of us read that he was a keeper. He was a great war chief. Maybe he was placed at the Carrie. If so, Bullock may have been there with the Utes when he was taken to the Carrie. I do not know and my thinking is not like anyone else’s so lets just say that this assumption is not so in any way. Bullock never has seen the Carrie and so Trigace you tell me how if you have something else.

Jessie Knight was at the Carrie. Caleb said so himself unless you want to call this part of the story false also. Maybe it is possible that Caleb was jumping to wild conclusions but then how did he ever get this into his head. I have seen evidence that leads me to believe that someone actually got into the Carrie. We are talking of Caleb’s day here and just maybe Caleb was mistaken on whom was really there. I doubt this can ever be proven in any way.

If Pete Miller was the one that supposedly went with Jessie Knight then this might be possible that he was one who also has seen the Carrie. I want deny the facts. Fill me in on the part if this is not who you are referring to. Supposedly the individual was killed in a auto accident when he ran off a canal bank If this is not who I am thinking about then you will have to fill me in on this individual. I have looked but am unable to come on the information right now on just who went with Jessie knight. This would be another who has been to the Carrie and supposedly he was given a piece of gold by Knight and kept it hidden put when he removed it and took and cashed it in this is when he was killed shortly later in an auto accident. So it leads you to believe that only some are supposeded to get to the gold. I could have gotten to it but I may not be here today. Who knows but the Utes?

Aaron Daniels was more than likely there. He could have been taken there by Caleb and or even Happy Jack. Then to any Ute that knew could have taken him there. His wife was a Ute. His material was gotten into before anyone ever saw it. His wife Rose destroyed what she wanted to and so now it looks like all that was left is the information concerning where Gifford had been and or some where on Lake Mountain. This is pretty much made clear in the story. That Mine would now be gone and the Utes would have taken care of this one.

Now this only leaves us with one more. The Bishop and I can tell you right now that he was defiantly there. This man knew what he was doing and the story totally jives with everything I know and or am sure that I know. Dale is tight lipped about this story. He is covering for someone and I fully understand. For me I know just what is taking place here. The Bishop has entered the Carrie. Now he walks right on down the stairway and past the wooden doors and now he enters the Garcia stash room. Tons of gold and silver bars is stashed right here, possibly stacked high as a man and all along the walls on both sides. It would be a beautiful site just to start with. There is no mention of it in the Bishops story but I know. Now he is making his way to another mine. I know which one and I will leave it at this. He is walking in very cold mountain water and it has to be freezing. He is more than likely near hypothermia and he has no idea how much further he has to go and or what will happen. Could this underground river just fall off to nowhere and he be swept away with no chance of every seeing daylight again? Who really knows?

Yes Trigace, we both forgot Boren. I am telling you right now that if he was not there he certainly has full knowlege of what he is writting. Maybe just a little off on some points but certaily not far.

Lies all of it and even the movie makers are in on this deal. The Big LUE map was made up by a crook and liar. Montezuma’s Treasure has never been proven to even be true in any kind of way. This is a lie also. Then for people to even think that the Ark could be here. Where is your heads?

As for waiting in a long line Trigace, you may very well be right on this issue. There is no telling how many more Utes are now watching.

Utes you owe me! 100 pounds please? No antiquities either but just pure raw gold. I will then quit writing for ever. As for my son he has never wrote one word and he has never talked about it to anyone but me. 100 pounds please? You owe me!

Lost
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#10  Postby Highlander » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:34 pm

The story I remember of Pete Miller was that he found it alone going in from the north slope at hickerson park.

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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#11  Postby Lostaslost » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:57 am

Got it! Ok for me I have always just refered to this as being just as Boren puts in his book, The Lost Nephit Horde. For me maybe I should have wondered over this area much more. I have been to Spirt Lake a few times and gone in and ate a hmburger and or drank a cold one. I would sit around the Spirt Lake and hope that some of Walkera's power would work off on me and or I would see some kind of Spirt at the lake. Never happened! I will tell all that I have definitly heard of some interesting stories taking place there. For the story of Pete Miller, yeap I believe it. What was there & where did it come from I have no idea. Possible the anchients and in all reality the anchients where more than likely right here. I have seen that evidence myself and I know some of you remember my pictures that I had posted a couple of years back. Is this one of the Seven Cities? Who knows but I am saying that this country looks really rough and just remember how the story went on finding the cave. I would have to say good luck to all.

This is not the Carrie but for some reason the Utes sure had this spot marked as being a Sacred site. Then to the Shoshonie also used this area at one time. The North Slope is the known boundry for the two tribes. Here thought it is open in an agreement for the both of the tribes. Why is this?

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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#12  Postby histreebum » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:18 am

I fear no man, I fear no myth, I fear nothing dead or alive..I was up yonder lookin fer some huntin buddies who gave me the wrong coords. one number off can put you in the middle of nowhere. I'd been in the area before so I want lost, just misplaced for a time. looked up and stopped dead in my tracks, a landmark that I had read of could very well be staring me in the face. The problem with written descriptions of landmarks is they are being described as accurate as possible using thier words, which can often mislead others..But this was TO A "T".... My eyes are wide open, but my sight is fading, it started outside at my peripheral vision and closed in till I was staring into darkness, but it was just my eyes, I could turn my head any direction and see nothing, like I was blind..It was about 1:00 in the afternoon mind you..what I thought was only maybe a minute, turned out to be almost 2 hours, standing there staring at nothing. As my vision came back, it was almost like getting knocked cold and the way your vision comes back slowly, fuzzy, and kinda sparkly, thats how it was. I could see again, I was standing firmly on the ground, not sitting or laying there like I would imagine. My 300 win mag on my shoulder and my 9mm sidearm (Im always prepared in the woods) and they never got a half a thought, I turned back the way I came and walked out, not ran, but walked. alot went through my mind on the way to get a phone signal so I could find my buddies, never told em about it though. Only told one person till now. I have yet to return to this spot, not because im scared, but because im not sure if I want to know whats up there. Maybe a good sweat will show the way, im sure i've got some sage around here some where and my neighboors dont mind my naked white body. Maybe this summer i'll have the answer..
Rob


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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#13  Postby Lostaslost » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:32 am

Rob that is a neat story. So you are saying you where in a state of lost mind is what I am taking it. Rob at one point in my life I kind of thought I might have been able to place myself in that state. I would sit at a place and ask myself questions of the sort needed. I have desrcibed trying to place myself in this state of mind at Spirit Lake. I have stood over graves and did the same, Caleb Roades grave site in Price........Well Rob I do not feel that way anymore if I ever did. When I would go to the Carrie I would sit and think about God and hope to have a vision. I wanted to know if the Ark was there and or if God rested and or resided there in the dark as the Utes believe......Rob as much as I wanted to have a vision I never had any sort of a thing. Yes I can say I felt close to God but in the outdoors I always feel this way. When the Utes rode up on my son and I when we where sititng and eating on top of the Carrie after we had left and later in bed at night I would wonder if it was God's Horse and or the White Stalion. Gale Rhoades had wrote about this in his book and then Roger Snow is the one who really filled me in on the short history of it......Rob this horse is for real and only the Utes know what they have done with it. I can say more but I will leave it alone. This is as far as the research goes. Search for the horse and see what you can come up with. It is so simple but no one can see it. Blows my mind!

Emnough BS for the night
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#14  Postby sanpete » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:43 am

Lost and Rob ====--]]]]] Are you shore of them feelings and lose of two hours? Maybe it was a UFO that beamed you up and they had there way with?
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#15  Postby Trigace » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:06 pm

Lost-
I may talk about all these stories and do a lot of searching in the mountains, but that doesn't mean that I believe everything that is written in the books, as some people do.

Concerning Ben Bullock. I may be partially wrong about him. Bullock claimed to have found the Rhoades Mine (See page 112 of "The Gold of Carre-Shinob). Boren says Bullock called his mine the Nephite Mine and in a statement (pg. 114-5) says it was shown him in a dream to be northwest of Vernal, but he didn't want to reveal the location. It didn't actually say he had gone into the mine, but only saw it in a dream. Boren says Bullock's Nephite Mine is the same as Caleb's Sacred Mine.

The Pete Miller story, (page 145 of "The Gold of Carre-Shinob) has Miller finding his fabulously rich cave "somewhere a little bit west of Spirit Lake." Then he describes the stacks of gold and silver bars, gold and silver statuettes, huge disks of gold with writings, stone boxes with gold and silver plates, precious stones, Spanish bones and armor, etc. Doesn't this sound just a little bit like what Boren describes when he, himself, went in the Carre? Thus, I think, IF Miller found what Boren said he found, it must have been the Carre!

By the way, the story of the Lost Nephite Horde is not related to the Pete Miller story. (See page 147 of Boren's book.)

In Boren's book "The Gold..." page 22, it says Chief Walker was shown the location of Carre-Shinob in a vision by Towats when he was on a cliff overlooking Spirit Lake. Later Walker told Morley the gold was protected by Towats, page 35.

In Boren's book, "Following the Ark of the Covenant", page 115, it says the Carre lies somewhere near Spirit Lake.

So, if the Carre is somewhere near Spirit Lake and Pete Miller found his sacred cave just west of Spirit Lake....theoretically they may be the same cave.

But, just like Boren's tale of going in the Carre, I have a big problem with the Pete Miller story (also told by Boren).

Boren's story says Miller went from upper Carter Creek south to the High Uintah mountain divide, then west 10 miles to near Spirit Lake , then north down the mountain. The total one way distance would be about 14 miles. This is some of the steepest and roughest country in the Uintahs, yet big, heavy set old man Miller made this trip to his new found cave and BACK to his cabin on Carter Creek in one day! It doesn't say whether Miller had a horse or not but it would have been nearly impossible for a horse to traverse this terrain. Later, it doesn't say whether or not it was the next day, he carried ropes and other equipment back to the cave -- another 28 miles?? Then this "large" man, alone, went down the face of a cliff to the cave entrance. Supposedly this same large man went back up that cliff by ropes, carrying a gold bar and some precious stones! And all this was back in the 1920's when rope climbing equipment wasn't as advanced as it is today, assuming old man Miller would have had that kind of equipment sitting around in his cabin.

The above, along with the fact that both stories describe the very same things inside the cave, lead me to belive both stories are BS.
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#16  Postby histreebum » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:27 am

Oh yeah..Dont believe in UFO's either...
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#17  Postby histreebum » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:39 am

Lost, you better be sure about wanting to be in that "state". Its a feeling like you have no control, I like to have control of every situation, but when I dont I get kinda aggrevated. I have touched Caleb's marker, with my hand and that will never happen again!!!! maybe its all in my head.....but never again..

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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#18  Postby Trigace » Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:33 pm

"Oh yeah..don't believe in UFO's either."
An interesting point of rebuttal to a logical argument.
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#19  Postby Lostaslost » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:12 am

Trigace I am pretty sure I have told people to stay away from the area you are describing. Yep, it is a dangerous place for sure and in more ways than one. I know that this just makes it chalenging and so there will be a crowd there. What you will find is trouble if you search to hard but get with it. Oh yea, Ben Miller had a stroke climbing around there didn't he. It done did kill him.

Do you recall that George Thompson said in his book concerning one area, Leave this to the kids and or younger generation. this was for another area but he was giving a warning for the older bunch to stay away and not to attemp these things. I know he did it and he saw that it was to much for anybody but kids.

Calculate the distance from up above Spirt Lake in the higher elevations to the reservation and see what you come up with. I have done it and I know how far away it is from the reservation. Surely you are not telling me that you believe that the Utes would wonder this far off of the reservation and tell someone to get are you? 22 miles Trigace! In all reality Trigace, the Utes can guard what ever they want to no matter how far off of the reservation they are.

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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#20  Postby dixiedesertman » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:06 pm

Histreebum, I had a similar experience to the one you described above once overseas while hiking in an area that had natural gas vents. The exposure to the gas was just enough to keep me dizzy, but not enough to make me pass out. I had roughly one hour of unaccounted time, and a strange sense of foreboding. I'm not saying that was the cause of your experience, but if it was, you could have found something that could make you far wealthier than the Carrie ever could.
Yes, I am the infamous "Arizona Strip Searcher"
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#21  Postby sanpete » Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:46 pm

UFO'S
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#22  Postby histreebum » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:44 pm

Dixieman, That had crossed my mind too, and the dollar signs did appear before my eyes...but at this point im able to say it was not any kind of natural gas, I was not delerious due to lack of sleep, which is the case most of the time, and the reefer I had was kosher... So who knows... as soon as the snow melts I will have a look and post pics of whatever I find...
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#23  Postby Trigace » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:31 pm

Lost-
It may be 22 miles from the reservation to the mountain top above Spirit Lake but they sure don't have to ride their horses that far to get there. There's a road that goes up to Chepeta Lake, which I'm sure you are aware of, that horse trailers can be taken up to get within a mile or two of the mountain top.

Regardless, the Utes have no property rights in this area and cannot stop you from going wherever you want. If they try by intimidation or force, you can report it to authorities or take up your own force and defend your rights as a US citizen.

I get the idea that some of the Utes like to think they are a sovereign nation and do not have to abide by USA laws. They close off many of their lands to US citizens yet they expect to be able to exercise full rights as US citizens to access national forest lands. If they keep us off their lands why shouldn't we keep them off our lands?

Yeah, I know that this will be controversial, but maybe it should be discussed.

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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#24  Postby sanpete » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:52 pm

7.62mm at 500 yards.
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Re: Anyone been there?

Post Number:#25  Postby Lostaslost » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:34 pm

Bow and arrow at 50 yards!

Trigace my whole point was the distance from the reservation. It had nothing to do with how far they rode there horses and or how they got there. I will tell you that with the story and how it goes their is not going to be any horse that helps anybody in this terrian. Anyone can stand at the Lake or Lodge and stare up and see this.

Now Trigace we are going to report this to the authorities. Whoa, what in the hell is this going to do for you? Are you thinking that the cops are going to escort you up to the top and then be ready to defend your rights to mine in the Wilderness? Then Trigace as I have very well said to many, I am not wanting to get myself and or anyone else involved with something that could get someone hurt. I do not want any Ute hurt either. Now we are getting into the vocabulary of the word Greed. Just what and or how much is it worth to you to get to any gold. Gold is a funny thing Trigace. I have seen it in peoples hand who have told me the stories and just how it makes people crazy. Everything is Ok until you are really into the gold and know it is right there in front of you. Then everything changes quickly and it becomes dangerous. People do not think right. Their minds become altered.

Trigace I know what I am talking about here. I have seen greed big time. Then to Trigace I had a friend of mine back more than a few years ago who told me a story. He and several other bought a claim up in Alaska. They bought some heavy equipment and went to work. Everything had been going swell with no problems. After several hours of work they stoped everything and checked the long toms out and man they had struck it rich. From that time forward everything changed right now. It became dangerous to even be there. This friend of mine told me that his partners had went crazy at the site of gold. He told me that for him the gold was nothing. It was no more than dollars in his hands but for these others it was pure gold and again it had altered their minds.

Trigace this guy asked me if I wanted to see some gold. Now this is the truth. He has a liquar store and we walk right outside to his vehicle that is parked in this small maul like area. Autos are parked everywhere. His windows are down in his truck and he reaches in to his truck to grap a sandwich bag of gold on his dash. I would say that there was at least several ounces of pure gold nuggets in this bag sitting right there out in the parking lot with his windows down. He had no concern what so ever.

He sold out his part of the calim for a good profit and was gald to leave. He never looked back.

Greed is not just a word Trigace. It is dangerous and just maybe more so than the Utes theirselfves. Now, who do you trust?

Lost
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