Utah Jesuits

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Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#1  Postby bonuntr » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:54 pm

Does anyone know the story behind the 3 or 4 Jesuits that were found murdered near Ephriam, UT.? What year they were found? What they were doing there? Was they associated with a larger group? I have heard it was during one of the indian slave revolts, but can't find any info on the subject.
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#2  Postby sanpete » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:29 pm

I have lived in Ephraim all my life and this is the frist I have ever heard this story.
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#3  Postby Toghoyok » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:53 pm

Maybe you're thinking of the event/massacre which happened at Chicken Creek NW of Ephraim?
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#4  Postby bonuntr » Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:20 pm

Toghoyok....
That is exactly what I speak of...Do you have the info on it? If so, do you want to put it up here or should I email you? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#5  Postby Randy Bradford » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:56 am

I've never heard of them being Jesuits, simply Mexican miners. But that entire story is muddied by different accounts of both the massacre itself and of those involved.
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#6  Postby Toghoyok » Sat May 04, 2013 1:54 pm

I don't know much about it other than what I've heard which is :

Supposedly there was a group of Spanish miners leaving the Uintah's and traveling South through Sanpete Valley, instead of going straight through, they veered west over the western hills of the valley where they were ambushed and massacred by the local Indians and that they took all of the gold an silver and cached it somewhere. Some have said Thomas Rhoades was one of the individuals who first discovered the site and also found a map or maps that was/were left behind.
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#7  Postby sanpete » Sat May 04, 2013 2:31 pm

Randy Bradford wrote:I've never heard of them being Jesuits, simply Mexican miners. But that entire story is muddied by different accounts of both the massacre itself and of those involved.

Randy-----------This must be the "Chickin Creek Massacre" that he is asking about. Lots of different storys about that.
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#8  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat May 04, 2013 2:42 pm

From the Book "Utah Gold Rush" pages 220 - 223 :

When all of the evidence is weighed, it appears that the Lost Rhoades Mine of Caleb B. Rhoades and F.W.C. Hathenbruck is identical with the so-called Lost Josephine Mine discovered by Wes Young. The area of location is the same, the description seems to fit, and the contents are identical. Both accounts confirm the presence of the wooden door, stone steps, blacksmith tools, and the gold and silver bars. In both accounts there is mentioned of an Indian burial ground nearby. There is still another parallel: men have perished in search of both. The history of the Lost Rhoades Mine is written on pages of misery etched in blood.

The written history of the mines (there were many, though we concern ourselves here only with the mine known to Hathenbruck) begins in the year 1540 when Garcia Lopez de Cardenas led an expedition north from Mexico to the rim of the Grand Canyon. Cardenas dispatched a party of seven men, commanded by one "Tomas Blaque," to proceed northward to the land of the Utes in search of the source of their gold.

"Tomas Blaque" was not a Spaniard. He was a Scottish soldier of fortune, son of William and Agnes (Mowat) Blake of Scotland. For twenty years he was the only man of British blood allowed to reside in Mexico, and he became the first known European to enter what is now the State of Utah. With six followers he arrived at an Indian village on the site of present day Vernal, Utah, in about September 1540. They tortured and killed several Indian braves until they were given gold from the mine, but the Indians rebelled at the last, and sent the expedition out of the Uintah Mountain country without the gold or their horses.

Blake's visit is well-documented. A map dated 1564, located in the Archives of Spain at Madrid, is titled: "Mapa de los Indios del Norte de la Rio Tizon en los Provincias Internas de la Nuevo Espaila, de la exactitude de lo referido a Senor Tomas Blaque, acerca de aquel pais, en Julio, 1540." Translation: "Map of the Indians of the North of the River Tizon (Colorado) in the Internal Provinces of New Spain, exactly as referred to by Senor Thomas Blake, who was near this country in July, 1540." [For greater detail, see: The Gold of Carre-Shinob, op. cit. at Chapter One; also: Following the Ark of the Covenant, Kerry Ross Boren and Lisa Lee Boren, Council Press, Springville, Utah, 2000.]

The Spaniards returned to the region, lured by the lust after gold and silver. They located and worked numerous mines across the length and breadth of the Uintah Mountains and elsewhere. They forced the natives into slave labor and compelled them to work in the mines. Many hundreds of Indians died under the oppressive yoke of their taskmasters.

In 1848, Fran Juan Ortiz told officers of Stephen F. Kearney's American Army at Santa Fe that as early as 1650 there had been a series of Spanish forts as far as five hundred miles up the Green River. In that same year, according to Fray Ortiz, the Indians arose in open rebellion against the Spaniards and burned the forts, killing most of the occupants and driving the remainder of them from the country.

One of the last of these Spanish forts existed as late as 1666 in the Grandaddy Lakes Basin, in the vicinity of the Lost Rhoades Mine. There exists a map dated 1768 titled "Mapa del Camino de los Minos del Yutas" ("Map of the Trail to the Mines of the Utes") that details that, in addition to a number of mines, there existed both a fort and a church in the region, 4o kilometers east of "Laguna de las Yutas" (Utah Lake), and that it was destroyed in 1666.

Nevertheless, the Spaniards continued to return to the region over the years, guided by their maps and journals, and removed much of the gold and silver from the mountains. The frequently attacked them and attempted to keep them away, but they came again and again in spite of it. They came with soldiers in armor; they came with cannon; they came with muskets and in such number that the Indians could not prevail. Often the Spaniards returned to Santa Fe and Mexico with Indian captives whom they sold into slavery, never more to see their happy mountain home. All of this in the name of the golden god.

Tracing only the history of the Lost Rhoades Mine in the Grandaddy Basin, which appears to be synonymous with the Lost Josephine Mine near Hoyt Peak, we make an important discovery. According to the Waybill discovered by Gale Rhoades: "...The Treasure abandoned for fear of death by hostile natives—of 42 comrades 8 survived. This Mine worked (from) year 1782 and covered in 1814, as so written in the journal of work of the expedition by me—Jose Jonqin Garcia, Captain—Mexico City, November Year 1814."

Pan-a-pitch was chief of the San Pete (or Sanpete) Utes. He had been born circa 1752 on the banks of the Seeds-ka-dee (Green River) and when only a boy of three or four years he accompanied his father Uin-pah-quint and other members of his tribe to the land of the Timpanogos, or Lake Shore People (present day Utah Valley). Eventually they settled southward in what became known as the Sanpete Valley.

The Spaniards captured Pan-a-pitch and tortured him to learn the sources of Ute gold, but he would not tell them. They placed him in a monastery in Mexico and chained him to the floor while they attempted to convert him to Christianity by force, hoping that if he converted, he would give the gold to the Catholic Church. They gave him the Christian name "San Pedro" or Saint Peter, which eventually became simply "San Pete." His people called him "Sanpitch."

After several years of captivity, San Pete escaped and returned to his people in Utah. In the year 1814 or 1815 the Spaniards launched an expedition from Santa Fe to convince the obstinate old chieftain to take them to his mines in the mountains. Still he refused. At last the Spaniards turned their cannon on his tepee, blowing it to pieces, together with his favorite wife and at least one of his younger children.

At last, San Pete relented and agreed to escort the Spaniards into the mountains and show them several gold sources. No sooner had he done so, however, than the Spaniards killed him, together with two of his fellow braves, and buried them in rock cairns near the mines. But when the Spaniards came down out of the mountains, their mules loaded with gold, and camped near present day Nephi, Utah, the Indians, led by San Pete's son Moonch, attacked them with a vengeance. A number of Spaniards were killed, but some of them escaped, though compelled to abandon the heavily laden pack animals to the Indians. The Utes returned the gold to the mountains and cut off the mules' hooves after killing them, superstitious that the burros might return in the spirit to aid the Spaniards. Moonch was the father of Chief Walker, and San Pete was Walker's grandfather.

There are many elements to this account that correspond with the account of the Lost Josephine. Both concern themselves with a massacre of the Spaniards, both occurred in about 1814, and both events took place at mines on upper Rock Creek in the Granddaddy Lakes Basin.

The next event of consequence connected to this elusive mine occurred in 1857 when eight Mexican miners were killed at Chicken Creek, near Levan, Utah. It was originally reported that the Mexicans had been killed by the Indians, who mutilated their bodies, and returned their stolen gold to the mines. According to this account, five days after the massacre, Brigham Young dispatched a detachment of 21 militiamen led by First Lt. Thomas Rhoades to bury the dead Mexicans. Ostensibly, Rhoades discovered several maps in a tin box at the massacre site, maps which showed the location of rich Spanish mines in the high Uintahs. And thus it was, as the story goes, that the rich mine fell into the hands of Thomas Rhoades, and eventually his son Caleb, and became the famous Lost Rhoades Mine.

In recent years, however, research had revealed a somewhat different story, supported by documentary evidence. During the 185os a Spaniard named Antonio Reinaldo, born near Seville, Spain, in 1820, led mining expeditions from Santa Fe, into the Uintah Mountains in
search of gold. He had in his possession a map drawn by one Juan de Meyo, showing the location of a mine or mines along the "Huella de San Pedro"—the San Pedro Trail—which connects it to the 1814 mine whereby Chief San Pete was killed.

Reinaldo and his party had been in the mountains for several years, mining gold during the summer months, and returning to Santa Fe before winter, carrying both gold and Piede Indian slaves for sale in Mexico.

Then in the autumn of 1851, Reinaldo and six of his companions were arrested by none other than Marshal Wm. H. Kimball and others and brought to trial on 24 December 1851 before Judge Snow for trafficking in slave children with Ute war chief Arapene. The names of the Mexicans were as follows: Antonio de Reinaldo, Fernan Santiago, Philip Perez, Juan de Corso, Alvaro de Peron, Pedro de Santa Cruz, and Juan de Meyo. The latter may have been the same who led the 1831 expedition, or a member of his family of the same name. [For a complete record of the Reinaldo story, including excerpts from the trial, see: The Gold of Carre-Shinob, op. cit., at chapter two.]

The result of the trial was that Brigham Young expelled the Mexicans from the Territory, with a stern warning never to return upon penalty of death. But Reinaldo did return, in 1853. He recovered a great deal of gold in that year and returned to Santa Fe. Then, in 1857, Reinaldo sent another expedition to Utah in quest of more gold. He did not accompany the eight Mexicans, but sent with them two maps to the mines.

The first map, dated 1851, is simple, showing three mines in one area, an arrow pointing apparently to the only one which they mined that year. On the bottom of this map, Reinaldo wrote: "Explanation—these mines of gold and silver are in the high plateaus, two canyons from the east beyond the headland of the Mountain of the Timpanogos, and are hidden among a great many lakes. Here there is much wire gold and silver in a formation of rock crystal... Antonio de Reinaldo, 1851."

The second map, dated "1851-1853," indicates much more extensive exploration. Reinaldo details rivers, streams, waterholes, peaks, trails, passes, plateaus, and mines, in considerable detail. The most important single detail is the "Huella de San Pedro," connecting the mine with the 1814 "Lost Josephine." While Reinaldo awaited their return in Santa Fe, the eight Mexicans camped with their packloads of gold on Chicken Creek. Mormon V. Selman, a Mormon missionary to the Ute Indians, recorded in his personal journal:

My father used to tell me of a time in the early days when a pack trail came down the Provo River and camped by his place for a few days to rest up their small pack mules. He said they loaded these animals with a heavy pack load that did not appear to be very large, but it was all those mules could carry. The miners kept an armed guard at their camp and no one was allowed near. He said that they stayed a few days and then went south. A few days later there was a report that some Indians had killed those men down on Chicken Creek and had stolen the mules, horses and whatever those animals were carrying in their packs. No one suspected that Indians would steal a pack train, so everybody decided that it was someone who had dressed up as Indians.

Dimick B. Huntington recovered the two Reinaldo maps and delivered them to Brigham Young. Thus it now appears that Thomas Rhoades obtained the maps from Brigham Young himself, by which he was able to locate a number of the gold mines. In the very next year (1858) Brigham Young and Thomas Rhoades shared equally in a massive private land grant which extended from the Kamas Prairie eastward to the headwaters of the Provo River, encompassing much of the area indicated on the Reinaldo maps. In the same year, Brigham Young dispatched Thomas Rhoades with a company of twenty-five men to establish a permanent settlement in the Kamas Valley. The settlement would constitute the "improvements" needed to legalize their claim to the grant.

During the ensuing years, Thomas Rhoades discovered and worked several of the mines illustrated on Antonio de Reinaldo's maps, all of which were in the Rock Creek-Moon Lake area in the high Uintahs. About 10 July 1859, twenty-three year- old Caleb Baldwin Rhoades located two of the three mines shown on Reinaldo's 1851 map, which he called the "Pine Mine" and the "Rhoades Mine." Of the thirteen mines shown on Reinaldo's 1851-1853 map, Caleb Rhoades is believed to have located at least four.

At the time of Caleb Rhoades' death in 1905, the Antonio de Reinaldo maps became the property of Caleb's widow, Sidsie Jensen Rhoades, who later relinquished the maps to Caleb's brother, John Joseph Rhoades (whose son married the daughter of Walter Boren, uncle of Kerry Ross Boren), who upon his death on 5 June 1935, passed the maps to his eldest child, Olive Ann Rhoades Westenskow.

By the year 1962 the maps, originally etched and inked on dry buckskin, were in such a deteriorated condition that they were carefully copied and the originals discarded. Mrs. Westenskow died on 14 October 1972, but in 1968, prior to her death, she relinquished the copies of the Reinaldo maps, together with other materials, to her nephew Gale Rhoades and Kerry Ross Boren for their book, Footprints in the Wilderness (1971). The maps were withheld from publication at that time, however, due to the authors' ongoing searches n the mountains.
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#9  Postby bonuntr » Sun May 05, 2013 11:15 am

Whyte....thanks for the truth behind the incident! By the time this story reached me, it was completely changed from Mexican miners to Jesuits, from the 1800's to the 1500's, from Chicken Creek, (by Levan), to north of Ephriam...WOW! How far off can they get it? I have been researching the incident for over 5 years, (the jesuit story), and now I know why I have found nothing to correlate the story, no such thing happened! Oh well, on to my next question....(On another thread)

Thanks to all....
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#10  Postby Lostaslost » Mon May 06, 2013 10:57 am

Whyte thanks for getting me back in here. Finally in as you can see!

bonuntr I would think that after 56 years you would have all of the books and know the story by heart. Now Whyte put the story as it is told. Another added to the story but I will leave that part out as it was told by Randy Lewis in his book as Whyte noted. I think somewhere on the site Randy Bradford also added with the whole story if you know what he was talking about and you should. Anyway looking for the treasure on Chicken Creek would be a waste of time as it is gone. Now maybe that some artifacts are still there if you can fall onto the actual battle site. Everyone throws in added material and thus the Rhoades Mine story is as it is. Meaning Lost! You at 56 ought to still be out there searching hard. Now with just what Whyte put in from the direct info from Randy Lewis and Boren doing the writing leaves a lot of details out on what to look for. Still there is things that where put as for what to look for. Look up definitions so you can understand well. I mean research well. This is the same you got to do for anything you are reading about that gives pieces of info. Something that does not mean a thing to you might make all of the difference in the world if you can just understand. You got to know what is being said and or thought when someone else put it into words. Their is a difference between a outright lie and if true what was meant. Caleb and Hathenbrock talked and that was natural. Caleb did not want to ever have the whole truth come out. Was he lieing about something in order to keep people off of his trail. Now some say that the gold was not as rich as it is being said. I believe that it was the richest gold mine in the world. This is just me and my interpretation. To each his own!

Take care bonuntr and good hunting!
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#11  Postby sanpete » Mon May 06, 2013 12:06 pm

Lost--------=======-Let me ad a little more to the story. Most people have said that after the massacre that the indains returned the gold to the mine it came from. Each night they would take the mules loaded with the gold and returne that night. Now that would be imposable for it would that at least 4 days to get there and at least 2 days back. Looking at it that way the gold has to be just a few miles away. They know were the massacre and the hoves of the mules were found at the massacre site. Lost this is one that I know to be true. Sanpet
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#12  Postby Lostaslost » Mon May 06, 2013 1:53 pm

Sanpet that is neat that there is actual proof of anything that supposedly happened. Now what about the other story. What is true and what is not true. Will you commit on that story. Now I do not want to open a bag of worms here. I guess you can go ahead and say that it was made up. I do not care about the story and or what happened. I just know that it seems real to me and you know as well as I do that it happened later on for real. So I can not say no to it. Besides you know as well as I do that I got other proof that Boren is not a total lair. In fact I can say that I know his stories really do have proof to them and you know that....Also Sanpet I have seen quotes out of other books that do say that Jason was here in America. That comes from books that deal with the Knights. Now America does not include Utah but yes it does. The books that I have seen deal with Jason are not by any means saying that Jason was in Utah. Lets say that the legend was actually based on some character then we have to decide who he really was. That I have not been able to find. Who was Jason really if he was actually someone. The Lost Rhodes Mine is a legend is it not? Was Caleb actually a true person? Then to we got the same deal for King Author and the legend does actually play a part in the Lost Rhoades Mine. Then to we are not dealing with the fact of gold are we. You know exactly what I am talking about and do not try to say you do not. Sanpet I think you know that I do not talk anything but the truth of what I really do believe. This site right here and Utah has done so much for my thinking that I can not even explain it. Lets just say here that everything I think is in the Carrie is really true. Realize Sanpet that not ever have I ever said on this site what I do know. Not by a long shot. I know that if I was to come out and say everything that nearly the whole site would be calling me a total liar. That want help me in one bit would it. The Utes know and I know. The Utes do not talk much now do they? So my search and research from 1982 until now will someday be gone. If I had my way about it all I would see to it that my ashes where spread on top of the Carrie. that would not be any real problem leaving it to my son but then to my wife and daughters would have a fit. Daughter naturally will go along with their mother. You know how it is with women. The wife wants to be placed beside me. Now the Utes might throw a fit about what I would want. They won on one deal but they would not win on this. Of course they would get their way again as my wife is not ever going to see it in any other way.

Sanpet I will always have the question in my head as to just how in the world was it that so much treasure ended up where it is today?

Any way Sanpet I hope you can understand my thinking.
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#13  Postby sanpete » Mon May 06, 2013 4:10 pm

what I want to say is this. I think that the gold is within a few miles of the massacre site. Now for one more thing does the fact become legend and the legend become fact??????????? Sanpet
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Re: Utah Jesuits

Post Number:#14  Postby bonuntr » Tue May 07, 2013 2:07 pm

Lost.....Not to worry, I am still searching, boots on the ground, every day of my life, (weather permitting). I asked the question about the Jesuits more as a "meter" to see if anyone else had heard of it. I was aware of the Chicken Creek incident, but it is still miles from where I was told the Jesuit incident occurred. Most likely, it is just story telling by the two gentlemen I spoke with....On the other hand, I still will not give up on the idea until I am completely satisfied with the subject. I still read and re-read all of the books by the "pros" and take everything in print with a grain of salt. Even the best treasure hunter would be foolish to divulge all of their information, as information is power in this and any other business. I have never had any interest in the Rhoades or other mines, (am I the only one in the world?), as I have found many other mysteries that take up all of my time. And yes, I have been hunting treasure for many decades, (as my father before me, and his father before him), but have found that I learn more by listening to the chatter here and on other websites. Besides, usually when I speak, I put my foot in my mouth!
Thanks to all, and keep it going, it is getting interesting!

Now if I could just control the weather....
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