Items of interest in Sanpete

Discussion relating to the events surrounding the discovery of Brewers Cave ...

Re: Items of interest in San pete

Post Number:#51  Postby sanpet » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:30 pm

White Eagle Back in the the Black Hill Quarry was in operation the people had very little money if any. Some of the quarry workers made things from that quarry or one of the about 12-15 quarry's around here to sell or trade to the farmers and such. Hay, grain and water troughs were just a few of the things made. When I was young my dad had a grade A dairy set up where my house is. One of my jobs at that time was to heard the cows along with my naborore's cows to the fields for the day and in there corral was was a quarry water trough. There are a bunch of houses through out Utah that are siting on quarry rocks from the middle and late 1800's
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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#52  Postby Randy W Lewis » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:44 am

Sanpete..

A watering trough,,, mmmmmmmmmm yes that makes perfect sense... that would be the easyest way to make one... but a little diffacult to move around,, and freezing water might present a problem.. have to keep it covered in the winter,,and empty.. Jerry better keep an eye on his trough... or keep it full of dirt like it was a flower planter..
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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#53  Postby KsTHer » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:40 pm

Filling it with dirt would probably not guarantee that it would not freeze and bust. A known igneous rock known as tufa is a better choice for a planter as it is porous and would allow the water to pass through without the freezing damage that one would expect with limestone. With dirt in the trough, it could make it through, but with a rain shower or very wet snow I would still be concerned as the freezing can swell the size of the trough sufficient to damage the limestone. (Just my opinion.)
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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#54  Postby Randy W Lewis » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:46 pm

you are right Ksther,,,... probably would still crack this is the pic of the water trough back in 2001

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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#55  Postby sanpet » Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:59 pm

That rock is still being used buildings, houses and gardens and land scraping today. State Stone has a couple of quarry's here in Sanpete. So do other companies. About 2 years ago one quarry was for sale for $2,000,000.00.
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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#56  Postby sanpet » Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:02 pm

That flower planter as you call it was just east across the street from Jerry mowers.
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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#57  Postby Lostaslost » Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:30 pm

OK I have missed some here on this. I want to say that Stephen Shaffer has a new book out called Vocies of The Anchients. Now I have not read the first page in it but only flipped thru it looking at all of the pictures which is not to far off from being half of the book. I will say at first that it looks to be a good book. Then I will say as yopu all know I have not seen a thing from Manti. A lot of this book has pictures dealing with Manti and Brewers Cave. Lot of wtiting on walls that are supposedly anchient. I think I also saw some pictures of Burrows Cave. I was also told tyhat he is supposedly coming out with a expanded version, Of Men and Gold. I guess that Vocies of The anchients has onl;y been out about 2 weeks. I bought mine at Orem in Rocky Mountain Prospectors Supply.

Well bewen to Vegas where the sun is shinning with no snow. I think it was 70 degrees on Sunday and 67 degrees Saturaday. Got up this morning and when I liiked it was 57 degrees. I am now back home as it is 14 degrees so I know I am home. Im actual;ly saw flowers in Vegas. We got a couple more months before I see a flower here if I am lucky.

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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#58  Postby Terry L Carter » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:01 pm

Non of these artifacts from morningstars photo came from Brewers cave. The black stones came from Burrows cave. The mystic symbols that have been found out west are fraud.

Morningstar wrote:Image

Here is a picture of a few items that supposedly came from Brewer's Cave. I thought some of you might be interested in seeing them. The picture is not the best as the background competes with the artifacts, but at least you can see them. If I remember right, the necklace in the upper right corner is modern.

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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#59  Postby Morningstar » Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:44 am

Thank you for your input Mr. Carter, but how do you know that? Where do you think the rest of these things came from? Which mystic symbols are you referring to? How do you know they are a fraud?

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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#60  Postby Morningstar » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:03 am

Oh, and what can you tell us about the so-called "gadianton" figurine?

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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#61  Postby Terry L Carter » Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:34 pm

Morningstar wrote:Thank you for your input Mr. Carter, but how do you know that? Where do you think the rest of these things came from? Which mystic symbols are you referring to? How do you know they are a fraud?

Morningstar



I have researched Brewers cave for more than 25 years. In that time I have interviewed every living person I could find who was involved with Brewer one way or another, and talked to the family members of those who were deceased. I tracked down artifacts and pictures of artifacts that supposedly came out of Brewers cave and not one of those plates or rocks had the style of writing on it that are on those black stones. 100% the black stones came from Burrows cave probably via Gary Taylor. I dont know where the other stuff in the picture came from. If I had to guess I would say that the obsidian pieces are modern and made up to represent the Eagle people ( I only say that because you said the neckless was modern ). As for the other stuff it looks like it came from South America including what you call the gadiaton figurine, however supposably some figurines like that was also found in the uinta basin area. I personally know a person who admitted to me that he carved the mystic symbols in several locations in the sanpete valley, not to perpretate a fraud but to see how long it would take for them to weather. He just happened to use the mystic symbol because he remembered it from one of Wayne Mays presentations. Not one artifact or hieroglyph ever found in the Sanpete valley or in the West ever had a Mystic symbol on it until after Wayne started doing his presentations in the 90"s.
I'm not saying that the things in your picture are a fraud. I'm just saying that non of that stuff even remotely looks like the items Brewer took out of his cave and had photographed.
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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#62  Postby Morningstar » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:03 am

Thank you, Terry. There is a lot of misinformation around, and I welcome the opportunity to try and sort things out. I am glad I specifically asked you about the "gadianton." I have not seen Gary for years. He is a nice guy and was the first to show me that figurine which I understood at the time, came from Dry Fork Canyon. (Sounds like you may have heard something similar.) Some of the details about the figurine didn't add up in my mind, and I was further confused when a few years later, there it was on the table with the artifacts supposedly from the Brewer Cave. Hmmm.
That is interesting about the mystic symbols in the Sanpete area. Do you know anything about the one in Kanab or Idaho(?) ? The fact that they were not identified as such until after Wayne's presentations is a consideration, but not necessarily a problem when you consider that oft times people are simply unaware.
Terry, is there any chance you would show us the photographs of the artifacts you believe came from the Brewer Caves?

By the way, is anyone here planning to attend the Book of Mormon Evidence Conference in April? If so, my husband and I would love to meet up with you, and put some faces with your names. :"} You are welcome to email me personally if you would like.

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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#63  Postby sanpet » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:25 am

brewers cave BS
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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#64  Postby Lostaslost » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:48 pm

Sanpet you got to speak up here. No one can possibley understand your felling here. Just come out and say you did not find anything after living here your whole life and so it has to be total BS. Then we will all understand what you are saying.

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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#65  Postby Burntman » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:32 pm

Heinerman has the answers. He's already committed to the story and he has the best "artifacts" taken out of the cave. He could go to the cave and get whatever evidence he needs to. Blow it wide open and make mainstream archaeologists eat snow. He hasn't and won't. He eluded to it in his book from years ago and then dropped it. Only conclusion is its fake. Oh yeah and angels emptied the cave?? Or in other words...didn't exist.
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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#66  Postby Lostaslost » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:03 am

Lets see here on all of this stuff. Now all of you know you have doubts about me ands some call me a outright lier. Well now get ready fdor this one. Let look hard at Morningstars post # 16. See the round stone with the center hole in it and the stone is black. Now lets look at Whyte's post #25. I was topld this story yesterday. It came from a jewler. We talk treasure onoccasions. Now when he told me this I could not believe what I was hearing. Supposedly and I will admit I never saw this but your round blacvk stones he told me that he knew a guy who had picked one up. It had the markings on them as some of the picture post shows. It was not English he told me. He was showed the stone and told the indivual that evidently the stone was wore on a necklace. Then he went into another story which I was familur with. This dealt with a supposedly Sp[anish knife that had been found long ago when the father and son was out cutting firewood. I have told that story before. I was also told the story by the guy who I had worked with. He was not a little boy then. Supposedly the father had set down to eat a sandwich and lets say in the area of the Flaming Gorge. Anyway they clened the knife up and decided it was Spanish. The knife and or sword had a gold handle. I think the woood for the handle was basically gone but the blade and fgold part of the handle was all intact. Someway they came to the conclusion it was Phonchian. Now the knife I am suspecting that it could still be located. The jewler had it for over a year and the guy came back and took it back. For the stone supposedly as he tells the story the guy got angry one day and took it off and sailed it thru the air into a stream. I think he said that the stone was found in the Uintas and he may have said in a stream and or river. I really do forget on it. There is a whole lot more that I will not go into just yet. He was telling me about some other things that I had showed him and what he thought concerning these places. Whoever was here was all over the place and I am saying I believe that Brewers cave is true.

Now for the Burntman. You surly are nt thinking that something and or anything is left in Brewers Cave. This would have all been removed and just use some since in that deal. Someone knows then all knows and that is the way it is. Someone is going to remove that Treasure and or artifacts. Hell Terry Carter will tell you that much. Whyte will tell you that much. When Brewer gave the guy the first bootle of wine it was over with. That is the way things work.

Now days we got the antiquity laws. This makes it good for our governement if they can get their hands on the treasure. it does not make it good for whoever had recovered it and not ever will they tell our government where the treasure is. Aha I am quiet sure you all hacve heard the stories of just old indian pottery and what happened to people who took the stuff. Real treasure would be something totally different.

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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#67  Postby Morningstar » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:08 pm

Burntman,

Have you ever heard the story of Olof Ohman and the Kensington Rune Stone? Typical story, a man finds an ancient stone, people call it a fake and set out to discredit the find and the man who found it. I don't remember the details exactly, but I think either he or his son was driven to suicide over the whole matter.
John Heinerman's story is a sad one, however interesting. He had some very bad things happen to him when he got involved with the Brewer Caves, and has since distanced himself from all of that. I am guessing there is more than one possible conclusion. ;=)

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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#68  Postby Lostaslost » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:58 pm

Morningstar it seems like you are saying that ther Minnesota farmer who had uncovered the stone had commited sucide. I think you must be talking about Brewer's son who was said to be killed. I just do not know about this. Anyway the stone that was uncovered in 1898 when the farmer cut the tree to clear probert for more farming came down with the roots and there was the huge stone locked in the roots of the tree with anchient writting on it. The date is clearly marked 1362 in two differnt places. If this stone has been finished as far as all of the testing then I think it is in a Museam in Ohio if I am not mistaken not mistaken.

The docmentary can be bought at Amazon. Holy Grail in America by The History Channel. I think the cost is like $20 and or in that area.

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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#69  Postby Morningstar » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:12 pm

Lost,

I was just trying to explain that so often when something amazing happens--such as a unique archaeological find--we should probably approach the situation with caution and even a degree of skepticism until facts can be proven. However, all to often there is a tendency for some to use the attitude of condemnation before investigation, which can result in a whole lot of persecution and pain for those involved. The story of the Kensington Rune stone is one such example. Here is a little more of that story:

"Many features of the Kensington Runestone were so far outside the experience of the experts of the day that it was quickly branded a hoax. Ohman’s life was never the same. His reputation was destroyed, and he and his family endured a virtual reign of terror that, arguably, helped drive his daughter to suicide. And the stone itself, like Ohman’s reputation, has remained an object of derision ever since.

The reputation of Ohman (who died in 1935) seems to finally be cleared, but only after a terrible human cost was exacted upon him and his family. Olof’s last surviving son is quoted by family friends as saying that discovering the stone was the worst thing that ever happened to the Ohman family. "

It was mentioned that since John Hienerman could have pursued the exposure of the caves and didn't, they must be a hoax. I just wanted to point out, that that is not the only possible conclusion. Any number of things could have been the reason he kept quiet; persecution is just one possibility. Although I do not know him personally, I have heard John Hienerman tell his story. I believe there is more to it than meets the eye.

That is just my opinion.

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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#70  Postby Lostaslost » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:03 pm

Mornihngstar I did not know that Ohmans daughter had commited sucide. I do not think that that was said on the documentary. As for the Brwer cave I just do not know. I did read Heinermans book and the whole thing seemed logivcal to me. I think whyte has said that they are now saying that the plates now are turning up as good. I think I read thast here on the site one time. And of course there was plates that where not ever returned. Why would someone keep worthless plates? Now our good government wants anything of this sort and so does the collages. It is a puire shame that stuff is not returneed and then they hound everyone until someone commits sucide.

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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#71  Postby Burntman » Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:05 pm

It is very unfortunate that mainstream beliefs and archaeologists are so vicious and relentless in their defense of what they think is right. I really am under the belief that if you're telling the truth and you have what is real then nothing could persuade me otherwise and nobody could make me feel any different. The history of Schliemann and his persecution around his eventual discovery of Troy. He was right and he knew it and in the end he got to point and laugh at all naysayers. You have something share it. Make the mainstream go on record calling you a fraud on every publication you can reach. On every form of media you can connect to. Then when you've proven what you already know destroy those who called you a fraud in the same way.
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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#72  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:12 pm

As one who does know John Heinerman personally, I can safely say the reason he has never brought more information out concerning Brewers Cave is simply because he has never been there ... He wrote himself into the history of Brewers Cave with his book, but unfortunately that is as close as he ever got. There are a couple of individuals who have been to Brewers Cave besides John Brewer though, they just don't publicize it ...
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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#73  Postby Terry L Carter » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:22 pm

Brewer claimed the only person he ever took inside his cave was his boy
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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#74  Postby Terry L Carter » Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:42 pm

Morningstar wrote:Thank you, Terry. There is a lot of misinformation around, and I welcome the opportunity to try and sort things out. I am glad I specifically asked you about the "gadianton." I have not seen Gary for years. He is a nice guy and was the first to show me that figurine which I understood at the time, came from Dry Fork Canyon. (Sounds like you may have heard something similar.) Some of the details about the figurine didn't add up in my mind, and I was further confused when a few years later, there it was on the table with the artifacts supposedly from the Brewer Cave. Hmmm.
That is interesting about the mystic symbols in the Sanpete area. Do you know anything about the one in Kanab or Idaho(?) ? The fact that they were not identified as such until after Wayne's presentations is a consideration, but not necessarily a problem when you consider that oft times people are simply unaware.
Terry, is there any chance you would show us the photographs of the artifacts you believe came from the Brewer Caves?

By the way, is anyone here planning to attend the Book of Mormon Evidence Conference in April? If so, my husband and I would love to meet up with you, and put some faces with your names. :"} You are welcome to email me personally if you would like.

Morningstar


I dont know if what you call the gadianton figurine in your photo is one of the same ones that Gary had. But I do know that Gary and Jerry where good friends. I havent seen the Kanab or Idaho mystic symbol, I would have to see them and do research on them as I am A healthy sceptic when it comes to that type of writing here in the west. I dont know if I will ever post photos or information, because there are people out there who like to take them put them on there web sites and claim them as there own. However I would be willing to show you in person.
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Re: Items of interest in Sanpete

Post Number:#75  Postby Burntman » Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:01 am

Put the pics and info in the news. On social media. Put it out there and stand by it. Discredit and destroy those who would take credit for doing nothing like heinerman apparently did. Whyte and Terry has me looking at his books a bit differently and I have all but the herb ones including "people in space". I think it's incubated long enough. Time for it to hatch. If you don't who will??
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