Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

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Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#1  Postby DigitalChaos » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:55 am

I found these here in Southern Utah. They were on a rock on the top of a hill. I heard a story about these Glyphs, and spent 2 days looking for them. I heard they were put there by Moroni. Anyone have any idea what any of these symbols mean?

Oh, and I found shotput man today, that was awesome. Right above him on a flat hill there is a mine shaft. Two of my buddies repelled to the bottom and there was nothing down there.

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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#2  Postby PTCarroll » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:56 am

f I can ask, were those glyphs located near the Cedar City Golf Course? I assume they were, if you were also in a position to visit Shotput Man. I only ask because I spent part of a day over there with my brother, InspectorClusoe, looking for some glyphs by the Golf Course and never did find them. It would be interesting to see what they looked like.

I know (or, at least, am pretty sure, since it has been a long time) that those aren't the Fillmore glyphs.

Beyond that, I would be running out of glyphs.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#3  Postby DigitalChaos » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:57 am

yes, these are the ones behind the golf course. i should also say that there are more glyphs on the rock i just don't have pictures of them.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#4  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:57 am

DigitalChaos ... This panel of petroglyphs is one of a series of panels scattered across the Western US ... and yes one of the stories surrounding them is that they may have been left by Moroni, but that is still inconclusive at this point ... still a nice set pf symbols ... Here is an image of them up close ...

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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#5  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:58 am

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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#6  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:58 am

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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#7  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:59 am

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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#8  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:59 am

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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#9  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:59 am

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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#10  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:00 pm

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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#11  Postby DigitalChaos » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:00 pm

WOW whyte eagle. great pictures, thanks! You've obviously been there, do you understand any of the symbols?

When I stood at shotput man and looked in a direction (NW i believe) I saw what looked like a turtle monument on top of a hill that was pointing in the direction of these carvings. I have not yet climbed the hill to see if it really is a turtle yet.

whyte eagle, do you know of anymore glyphs in southern utah i could hike to and check out? I heard there's a turtle in Ashdown canyon and that there is a spanish mine there, at the head of coal creek, below the cedar breaks.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#12  Postby Herb » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:01 pm

Try the Parowan Gap, lots of them there
http://www.parowan.org/city/pgap/
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#13  Postby Buzztail » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:02 pm

Herb ---Thanks for the great link and info again ---Tom
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#14  Postby BriannasDad » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:03 pm

Digital. Down in that area, all you have to do, is just start hiking. Take in your sorroundings and pick a good area to search, you will find them. They are all over the place. And Herb is right, the Gap is a great place. The only problem with it, is that it is all fenced off and hard to get a good look at some of them.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#15  Postby InspectorClueSo » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:03 pm

The panels shown are likely Sioux and Jibawa. They appear old because there is also some Miyan hand glyphs in each panel and some times other Miyan symbols (such as the top symbol at the Fillmore site). There are also indications that these panels probably aren't so old--some of the symbols for example probably indicate a 'shoed' horse or horse's. Horses alone would probably indicate that the panels are not more than a few hundred years old at best and shoe symbols would indicate probably stolen from the Spanish or Calvary or early pioneers. Another indication is that none of the panels that i have seen personally or photo's of show very much re-patination. If they had been there very long this probably would have occurred much more than it has.
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Possible Ojibwa connection?

Post Number:#16  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:04 pm

Good points to ponder Kent however, the Ojibwa culture was pretty much centered around the great lakes region and they were known to not travel far from that area. Thats not to say that a group didnt break off and migrate to the western US. Populations of the Ojibwa reached an all time high of around 30,000 and were considered one of the largest Native American groups. I would think that if the Mystery Glyphs are only a couple of hundred years old, then those who made them would have been observed by the various other groups that would have been traversing the Western US at the time and would have some sort of mention of them by those same groups.

Some of the symbols would appear to match some of the symbols used by the Ojibwa. I guess the question is, did the Ojibwa actual make it that far west? If so, why would they have made the journey and when? Would they have had the hardened tools sufficient enough to make such finely inscribed symbols in stone?

One thing about them is for sure, the markings are old and was left by someone or some group who had knowledge of a written language. So far as I can tell none of the groups inhabiting the Western US in the past 2000 years had a written language of any kind.

Not too sure about the possibility of the Sioux connection Ill need to look into that a little more
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#17  Postby Florida Photographer » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:05 pm

Sorry guys, what you see in these pictures is some of Napoleon's best work. I call him Napoleon to protect the guilty.
Plus it would not be nice to call him a fat stupid horses a..

Ox you are right about the horse shoes, but there is another symbol that is a dead giveaway as to the fraud perpetrated here. This other symbol was not even commonly seen in the US until the 1980's. Only a very few people in the US had knowlege of this symbol starting in about 1950. Then more people in the late 1960's after doing their tours in SE Asia. Do you see the symbol?

If you look around the net you will find a snapshot someone took of Napoleon as he was carving one of these series of symbols. He was using metal tools. And laughing.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#18  Postby InspectorClueSo » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:06 pm

Whyte Eagle
Just something to think about--two weeks ago I was speaking with a Ute indian who had a little knowledge of petroglyphs. He said that the Ute panels showing horses for example, usually indicated a 'spiritual' movement, nothing to do with animals, people migrations, etc. I specifically asked him what he could tell me about indian 'clans' because I have a particular interest in them but I can't find much information. He didn't share much with me but confirmed what I already knew or thought about some of the clans including that they had specific duties or assignments. He said that the lizard clan had specific duties, interests, dealings, or whatever with things underground, I already knew this (there are several signs of the lizard clan in the Josie Morris' area and south. There are also signs of the kokopelli on the same panel. The kokopelli was a clan but they didn't travel together the way that I understand it--it would be a single clan member traveling from tribe-to-tribe and one of his duties or assignments had to do with fertility of the women I believe. Down south we have many petroglyphs here in Utah of the snake dance and that probably was the Hopi Indians from further east. I know of several different tribes that migrated through Morgan County, many on their way to the Great Salt Lake for healings, meetings of various kinds, etc. The bottom line is--'major, regular, occupancies or migration was not the only occupation of areas or visitation of an area by a particular tribe, band, clan, etc. And the person or persons passing through may have been alone or in a group. There were also several reasons to carve or paint a record including, spiritual, magical, historical, informational, etc. A single 'great historian' of his time (possible traveling alone) could have made many panels. I think that if you study indian legends passed down by word of mouth that you will find spoken record of tribes and individuals traversing the entire width of the United States. This was done for multiple reasons including banding with other tribes for war, and also slavery trade. You can also see the trade items from great distances in archeology sites--sea shells, types of rock, etc. that are not found for long distances from where they are now located. They had to get there somehow. Just some thoughts. Some of these 'traveling people' might have decided to write something on a rock as they were traveling?
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#19  Postby InspectorClueSo » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:07 pm

Probably should mention one other thing--many of the symbols that we are talking about are exact replicas of the Ojibawa language as recorded in books written in the mid 1800's.
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exact replicas of the Ojibawa language

Post Number:#20  Postby Florida Photographer » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:08 pm

Ox, "exact replicas of the Ojibawa language" no argument here. I think Napoleon was trying to manufacture a Michigan - Utah connection. But why?

I also agree that Native American tribes got around a lot more than what is popular belief.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#21  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:09 pm

Thanks for the info Kent I also have no doubt that various groups traversed the North and South American continents, as well as Central America. Ive also compared some of the symbols to the Ojibwa and there are a handful of exact matches, no doubt about that. Its also very plausible that the panels may have been made by some traveling band of the Ojibwa. So far the only evidence that this might be is that some of the symbols match. Im curious as to why we dont find all the symbols represented in the Ojibwa language if they are truly Ojibwa in nature, I think if there were a larger match in the Mystery Glyph symbols and the Ojibwa symbols it would be a greater evidence that the traveling Ojibwa theory was the correct one.

I think we can all agree that they were not made by the indigenous personnel occupying the Western US, which would include all the tribes that inhabited the area for the past 2000 years.

Like you, I believe them to be at least 150 years old but what is their exact age?

The fact that they are so wide spread is another one of the mysteries surrounding them. You already know that there is at least one known panel in every western State (24 total known panels, with a few clues to some others which may have been destroyed or not yet documented) with the exception of Washington.

I should mention that we have found matching Mystery Glyph symbols in other symbol sets used by various groups as well at various times in history and not all are native to the North American Continent. Of course that just adds to the mystery rather than answer any questions ;=)
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#22  Postby Florida Photographer » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:10 pm

3 bands of Chippewa moved to NE Montana in the 1880's.
2 bands are still there.

As far as the symbols, I only see about 4 or 5 that appear to be Cree. 3 or 4 other symbols are Egyptian. A couple Mayan. A few Micmac symbols. A Hebrew or 2 for good mesure. And of course the famous Asian symbol. In other words it is hip deep horse turd.

Are Micmac, Cree, or Mayan hieroglyphics descended from Egyptian hieroglyphics? No. They are all non-alphabetic writing systems, but otherwise have nothing in common at all.

Are Amerindian languages descended from Hebrew, Ancient Egyptian, Scandinavian or Celtic languages? No. The people who claim this are trying to prove that American Indians arrived in the Americas very recently.

Then there are websites claiming to "prove" that Amerindian languages are descended from Semitic or Germanic languages. 90% of these websites are deliberately lying, making up nonexistant "Algonquian" words that resemble words from Semitic languages.

Sorry fellas, those steel chiseled symbols are a hoax. Please don't be mad at me, I'm just the messenger. Take it up with Napolean he has been pulling this crap for more than 30 years.

Also, when I was shown what is now called the Shotput Man back in 1984 or 1985 he was called Hamlet. Don't know why some artist would carve a figure from Shakespeare near Cedar City. If it isn't supposed to be Hamlet, it certainly isn't Spanish/Catholic. Think about it. That has got to be one of the most Protestant messages I've ever seen.

Truth is the greatest treasure.

Maybe soon in another post in a more appropriate spot on this forum I'll "profile" Napolean. When you read my theory on what makes him tic, you will nod your head in agreement cause everything will click. The man is truely mentally sick.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#23  Postby avantais » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:11 pm

Florida, I can't find any proof of some guy named Hamlet carving these through any web searches. Can you be a bit more specific about this guy? I'd also like to know why Whyte Eagle thinks they're atleast 150 years old, they look pretty recent, although that may be because they've been chalked.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#24  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:12 pm

Avantais, Im basing the age of at least 150 years old from one panel which was first seen or recorded as being seen around the year 1855. The other panels could have a different time reference, but some were full of lichen when first found as well I know that dating by lichen is not that accurate, but does lend some credibility to a longer than normal amount of time.

Im not familiar with the individual Napoleon being referenced by FloridaPhotographer either. Maybe we will be enlightened when he reveals the info concerning the matter that he can share.

Unlike FloridaPhotographer I dont discount the Mystery Glyphs as hoaxes based upon the mixture of symbol types. For all we know it was in and of itself its own separate language using symbols which happened to match symbols of other symbol sets. In other words, Im not looking at the Mystery Glyphs as a symbol set contrived by a hoaxer by bringing symbols of other known languages together in order to make a new set of symbols.

Any in depth study of the known panels will support this theory. Of course not all symbols used in the Mystery Glyphs are found in all panels known to exist. Keep in mind also that not all of the known panels have been available for public viewing, I know this is true because Ive seen some panels that have not been made available in any format for viewing. There is also undoubtedly more panels yet to be discovered which may or may not shed new light on the information we all ready know concerning the Mystery Glyphs ;=)
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#25  Postby InspectorClueSo » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:12 pm

I am also of the opinion that at least part of these panels are genuine. As far as symbols being found in other languages--a little study of older written languages will reveal that most older languages were developed from hand sign being converted to written symbols. Just as many indian tribes in the US could understand each other if they spoke in hand sign without understanding any of the spoken language--ancient people could also often read each others written symbols. A world wide comparison of written symbols shows many duplications. Many studies have been done. TCarter knows more about (or at least has seen and photographed) more of this particular language than anyone that I know but there are a number of panels that I don't think he knows about. These panels are so far scattered (distance wise) that it makes one wonder about the concept of perpetrating a fraud. Just like the Soper Savage collection--reason would say that a fraud is not likely due to the number and locations of this writing.
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