Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Discussions of ancient petroglyphs and related items ...

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#51  Postby Florida Photographer » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:03 pm

Ok Bob, here is why I think they are fake. I was up there in May or June of 1984 and those symbols were not there at that time. I looked under there to see if it was a tunnel or cave and I don't see how I could have missed them if they were there. If I remember correctly that space under there was about 3' x 3'. Now don't anyone yell at me that it is 2'7".
It has been almost 23 years and I'll admit I was known to drink quite a bit back then.
User avatar
Florida Photographer
 
Posts: 710
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#52  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:06 pm

I would like to refer you to the following link for more information on the subject :

Mysterious Petroglyphs of the Western US
Image
User avatar
Whyte Eagle
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8373
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: Western US

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#53  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:07 pm

i thought davala was in cedar prior to 1984 . if someone had a picture of the glyphs in cedar from the 60's or 70's would it change your mind at all? i am going to have to make a couple of phone calls and see if I can come up with anything.to me the glyphs in cedar are a maybe / maybe not kind of thing . it would be nice if they are tied in with the rest of it somehow and it is having to do with treasure because then we might have many more sites to try to compare too and try to make some sence of the bigger picture. for now it is an enigma in the middle of a treasure riddle that may or may not ever be solved .bob.
User avatar
Kanabite
 
Posts: 1587
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#54  Postby Florida Photographer » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:08 pm

Sure it would change my mind. I'm always open to correction. :)

But what if someone who reads this comes forward and admits that they were up there with a person we will call Mr._______ when he carved them with a dremell? :lol:
User avatar
Florida Photographer
 
Posts: 710
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#55  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:08 pm

ok now for the big question is this mr._________ a treasure hunter from utah? are you telling me for a fact that the ones in cedar were done in the last twenty two years. if you could proof this it would be helpful but you might get some rebuttal from those who know a lot more about them than myself.
User avatar
Kanabite
 
Posts: 1587
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#56  Postby Florida Photographer » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:10 pm

Bob, I ask this in all politeness are the little "emoticons" like this one > :lol: < of a laughing face showing up on your screen? Some computers they don't come up on and it causes misunderstandings.

No I was kidding when I said that and I added the smiling/joking emoticon to help indicate that. This one > :lol:

Was just trying to end on a light-hearted note.

It is 2 hours later here than it is there so I need to end my visits for the day. My apology if these aren't showing up.
User avatar
Florida Photographer
 
Posts: 710
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#57  Postby Terry L Carter » Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:10 pm

Florida Photographer
I had a big long post but some how it didnt make it onto the forum and I lost it. I dont want to go through all that typing again so I wont. The Cedar City Mystery Glyph site was reported in the 1930's. Here is some verifiable printed information that you can check to see that they were there when you visited the area, you just missed seeing them some how.

Deseret News, Wednesday, Nov 26 1975
(The angel, the gold and Jose Davila)

Petroglyphs and Pictographs of Utah volume two (page 91)
By: Kenneth B. Castleton, M.D.
Image
User avatar
Terry L Carter
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 4:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#58  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:42 pm

egyptian? knights templar ? spanish/jesuit ?american indian? masonic ? morman? origins unknown but still it makes you wonder. I hope someday Terry finds out for sure . this is a cool quest that could change the way many view the history of the american west. it makes me want to help and maybe we are getting closer. the funny thing is that I am left with more questions than answers. i told terry once that I did not know if anyone would ever be able to read them. we are lacking that roseta stone kind of thing that would seal this without a doubt. the fact that the one set is 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile from a treasure alpha make me ask myself if the rest of them have something similar going on . I think the ones in filmore that davala was interested in may also be in the area of the map rock that was posted here on the forum but I have never been there. there is also a sun sign in spanishfork {I think} that has some things in common with the SPM in cedar. I have been told that they are layed out in a similair way . the angle the rocks they are carved on is supposed to be identical , this could be interesting if they both cast shadows signs at certain times of the year and similar times of days. i do not know but I wonder if the sunsign has a set of mystery glyphs 3/4 of a mile from it.I do believe the real ones were put there for a reason , if they are treasure oriented then Terry Carter has like 26 sites in the western US to find out the answer and that is cool.////bob.
User avatar
Kanabite
 
Posts: 1587
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#59  Postby SteveNM46 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:43 pm

I'm wondering if location isn't also important with these mystery glyphs.

The New Mexico panel forms a nearly perfect isosceles triangle with the two most visual landmarks in the area-both landmarks playing heavily into treasure legends, by the way. The triangle has a base line of 14.5 miles (dead east/west alignment) with the other two legs being 10.4 miles long. Midway along the north/south line bisecting the base line is a very major panel of "conventional" carvings that is the hub of TH activity in the area. Coincidences? Maybe, but the geometry of the mystery glyphs' placement seems quite extraordinary.

If I'm not mistaken, Mr. Carter told me the New Mexico panel was located ca 1960 by a child. I haven't heard any other mention of them prior to that even though they are close to a population area. They are just below a ridge top in limestone rimrock and are difficult to notice unless you are in exactly the proper location.
User avatar
SteveNM46
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#60  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:44 pm

In answer to your question Kanabite ... the Sun Face is in Diamond Fork Canyon which forks off of Spanish Fork Canyon ... the closest known panel of Mystery Glyphs would be in Provo, as far as I know there is no panel of Mystery Glyphs within 3/4 of a mile of the Sun Face ...

All known panels of Mystery Glyphs lay within the boundaries of the western US, with no known panels in Washington or Orgeon ... yet ... ;=) ...

it is true that there is a map rock (for lack of a better term) in proximity to the Fillmore panel, but it is inconclusive as to whether or not it has anything to do with the Fillmore panel.

I'd have to say the same about the relationship of the Shotput man and the Cedar City panel ...

With regards to the article that FloridaPhotographer posted, I've read through the whole thing and have yet to find any reference to the Mystery Glyph panels ... did I miss something? Please enlighten me if I did ... it is true that the Cherokee's are one of other known tribes to have a written language, but I see no similarities to the Mystery Glyphs ...
Image
User avatar
Whyte Eagle
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8373
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: Western US

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#61  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:44 pm

hey whyte how are you amigo? it is hard for me to speculate about the fillmore thing because I have not ever been there but I was wondering about how close the {map rock} and mystery panel are from one another ? is it similair to the layout of the SPM and the glyphs in cedar? /////////////////the mention of the sun face may or may not be important . the person that told me about it was giving me instuctions that read something like start at the mouth of the canyon, follow the river to the first little canyon on the left ,go up the left hand fork to the first draw on the right ,go up the little draw about the same distance as the SPM is from the bottom of it's little draw on the right . the directions to it made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. i have never been treasure hunting in diamond fork but the directions to it sounded very similair to the directions to the SPM. none of this is very conclusive but if the sun sign is a treasure site alpha and it does have similarities in both layout and general geological location I would look hard for a mystery panel in the diamond fork area.
User avatar
Kanabite
 
Posts: 1587
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#62  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:45 pm

I can see where those instructions would make you think it was similar ... but I think you would only be able to compare the draw and natural formations since most of the directions are modern day roads ... ;=) ... the Sunface is also a petroglyph whereas the Shotput man is a relief ... the distances for getting to the Sunface is also much greater in scope than that of the Shotput man ...

I also think it is safe to say the area surrounding the Sun Face has been extensively searched and is a popular hiking area for many who go there ...

The Fillmore Panel is in eye sight of the map rock, although some of the trees in the area can obstruct the view ... I'd guess the two are within 1/4 mile of each other with the Map rock being lower in elevation than the Fillmore panel ...
Image
User avatar
Whyte Eagle
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8373
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: Western US

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#63  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:45 pm

well you may be right about the sun face being something different . i have only ever seen pictures of it and have not been able to confirm or deny the information but the person that told me about the similarities was pretty convinced that they were both jesuit in origin . it is very interesting that the fillmore pair are in such close proximity . I have a hunch that the only way to find out what the glyphs might mean would be to figure out what else is going on in both cedar and fillmore . if this snow would melt I might be able to help with one of them . you guys should plan on comming down sometime this spring and go for a little hike. I found a couple of things that might need a second oppinion. if nothing else I can show you a spanish heart that was hewn out of solid stone . it is set up on a pivot that would result in instant death if you moved even the smallest rock from it's trigger.
User avatar
Kanabite
 
Posts: 1587
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#64  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:46 pm

hey steve i missed your post when this topic got move. could you go into any detail about the panel of "conventional carvings that is the hub of TH activity". can you speculate about the author of the other carvings/ can you give a guess as to how far these carvings are from the mystery panel or did I misunderstand you? i am really looking for some common ground about what else is located in the areas where the mystery glyphs are found.
User avatar
Kanabite
 
Posts: 1587
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#65  Postby SteveNM46 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:47 pm

Kanabite: The 'conventional' carvings are 7.6 miles as the crow flies away from the mystery glyphs - I'll send WhyteEagle a photo to post of them. As you can see, two sets of carvings seem to appear on this rock - an older, fainter set and a newer, brighter set with some of the symbols repeated. While these carvings are prominant, they are only a piece of a very large interlocking puzzle that stretches 40 miles at least. As I said above, it's the geometry of the pattern formed by the various landmarks and carvings that's intriguing - the mystery glyphs forming a point on the large triangle as described earlier.
User avatar
SteveNM46
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#66  Postby SteveNM46 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:50 pm

Image
User avatar
SteveNM46
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#67  Postby Florida Photographer » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:51 pm

Terry Carter, "Deseret News, Wednesday, Nov 26 1975
(The angel, the gold and Jose Davila)" They wanted $10.00 before I could look thru the archives and that the archives only go back to 2000 online.

I will take your word about this article. I must have missed seeing them or maybe caught it out the corner of my eye and the brain just automatically registerd it as graffiti. Maybe the brain registered it as just another Killroy.

Also, since I live on the East Coast, it did not occur to me to think about Chineses rail laborers in regards to the yin and yang symbol. Do you happen to know about what year the railroads began importing labor from China? I wonder if they shared this symbol with some people in some parts of the western U.S.? This does not counter my belief that the yin & yang symbol did not become widely known in the U.S. untill after Viet Nam.

In my limited amature research of those mystery symbols I have not found any Native American usage of the yin & yang symbol.

Have you submitted photos of the symbols to the anthropology department at the U of U? Someone looking for a thesis might take a keen interest in them and do some major research for free. Or BYU or Utah State.
User avatar
Florida Photographer
 
Posts: 710
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#68  Postby SteveNM46 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:52 pm

Terry Carter, I forgot to ask you with all sincerity. What is your guess as to what the Mystery Glyphs are about? How long have you been researching them?
User avatar
SteveNM46
 
Posts: 451
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#69  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:53 pm

Florida Photographer ... while you are waiting for Terry's response, you can read a little more about his thoughts on the Mystery Glyph's here :

Mystery Petroglyphs of the Western US

Personally I have been reserching the Mystery Glyphs since the late 1980's and believe that they are at minimum 150+ years old ... but I think they may go farther back than that ....
Image
User avatar
Whyte Eagle
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8373
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: Western US

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#70  Postby Satorilost » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:53 pm

The Glyphs with handprints upon them: It seems to me that there should
be a way to test the residue still left on the rock, to find out what was used
to make the print with very little damage to the overall panel and much like
testing inks on questionable historic documents (See Vinland Map) an
aproximate age might be possible because of what was technologically
possible at different times by different groups.

Robert
User avatar
Satorilost
 
Posts: 638
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:00 pm

Hand Prints

Post Number:#71  Postby Satorilost » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:54 pm

Of course that's if we assume that the handprints were done by the
same person or group that made the carvings, and not territorial
pissing by a later group, especially since the prints don't seem to
appear at all the sights... which isn't to say that it weatherd off at some
sights?

Robert
User avatar
Satorilost
 
Posts: 638
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#72  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:55 pm

i have not seen all of the different signature glyphs , but the two types I have seen, one being the hand print with the eye and the "M" , and the other with the hand print and the swastika can both be traced to the time period in the western US after the spanish occupation. now I am not saying this is the only explanation but it seems the swastika symbol was not used in the western US by the indians until after the spanish had arrived. i know that the swastika symbol, along with it's mirror image, are ancient in the old world but if it did not appear on panels in the west until after the spanish occupation, one might try looking for spanish mining activity in the area of these signature glyphs . the first thing that I noticed in the cedar city panel that made me wonder about how old it might be was the glyph of the horse , and the dude in the hat. these symbols if they are ideograms would have either had to have been made after the arrival of such things or the glyphs would have been far more ancient than their present condition appears to be.i do not think the three toed horse has been alive here for many thousands of years. it makes more sense that the panel is talking about a spanish mission in the area , and if there was a spanish / jesuit mission here there is a strong possibility that the spanish were doing what they did best, looking for treasure. now don't tear me up too bad for saying these things in a state where people would very much like the glyphs to be associated with a religious belief , but I am going to stand firm that at least one panel has to do with the spanish enslaving the indians to work their mines . //////////////////and a little note to steve , nice panel , the older stuff seems to have topography on it . there are also some nice charactors in the panel , maybe some spanish treasure symbols intermixed with the native stuff .
User avatar
Kanabite
 
Posts: 1587
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#73  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:56 pm

OK Kanabite ... I won't tear you apart ... ;=) ... but I do need to make a rebuttal ...

First, very few if any of those aware of these Mystery Glyph panels think them to be of religious origin its pretty evenly divided between two camps, those who think they are modern and those who think they are old a smaller percentage either dont have an opinion or think they may be treasure related (Spanish, KGC, etc)

Second the use of certain symbols cannot necessarily be used to determine the age of the symbols and heres why just bear with me if these were made by a group of individuals, then they most likely would have been a small group and maybe nomadic, either way they no longer exist in a state we recognize today Im willing to bet that who ever left these are now extinct if that is the case we have no idea what level of intelligence or exposure to other groups they may have had they could have used any number of methods, but because we can not study their history we just dont have any way of knowing what they were capable of maybe they migrated here from somewhere else and the ying yang and swastika and other symbols were all apart of their language from where they came from impossible you say? Well it so happens that we have found three different languages in written form which sport some of the Mystery Glyph symbols, and are always on the look out for others one of those languages has a lot of the same symbols and is written in stone in the same manner, and no one knows what they say either or who left them this is in another part of the world as well mind you Ive also found some references to a couple of possibilities from South America but have not been able to confirm them yet

Third some of the panels have what appear to be hand prints on the symbols that are outside the main panel of symbols this doesnt mean a whole lot necessarily, but they are there and appear to be old Ive never known the Spanish or any other known group to leave their palm prints on top of marks they have left its always the left hand that is used and from the hand prints that we can see, it would appear to be at lease several different individuals who left their mark this feature is fairly unique to the Mystery Glyphs

Fourth So far all of the known panels are fairly well spread out across the Western US if they were forged or modern, I think you would have only a handful of panels at best and they would be much more centrally located in relation to one another Im fairly confident that there are yet undiscovered panels of the Mystery Glyphs, again we are always on the look out for new panels for obvious reasons and are currently tracking down some leads which will hopefully provide us with new panels to research and maybe even help us understand them better than we do now

So in a nutshell personally I dont think they are modern, nor were they made by any well known group such as the Spanish or the KGC who left them? <shrugs shoulders> only time will tell, hopefully one thing is for certain, who ever it was felt it was important to leave their mark for whatever reason ;=)
Image
User avatar
Whyte Eagle
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8373
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: Western US

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#74  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:56 pm

left hand only sounds masonic in nature , and there is the eye . the eye it seems was used alot . the eye is the window to the soul .....good luck amigo, someday I hope you do find the answer.
User avatar
Kanabite
 
Posts: 1587
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 5:00 pm

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#75  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:56 pm

The eye is one of what we call the signature symbols and, so far, is always found outside of the panel with the rest of the sybmbols ... the hands have a fantastic similarity to those used in the Mayan Glyphs and have some very distinct properties that would lead one to believe they may have had a similar origin ... I hadn't made this connection until just recently when a friend of mine pointed it out to me ... but it's there no doubt about it ... I'm not saying that the Mystery Glyphs may be Mayan, but the use of the hand symbol looks really similar ...

I'll get some of the images of the other sites posted for everyone to get an idea of the different panels we know about ...
Image
User avatar
Whyte Eagle
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8373
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 5:00 pm
Location: Western US

PreviousNext

Return to Petroglyphs

  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest