Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Discussion regarding the Mystery Glyphs of the Western United States ...

Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#76  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:57 pm

that would be cool . there is an answer to this somewhere. never give up .
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#77  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:57 pm

ok I am sitting here watching Whyte upload pictures of some of the other known panels . in the wyoming panel I see where someone has started to remove another {M/eye} glyph . ok what is going on with this ? for those who do not know there was a similar gylph on the cedar city panel that has been removed . this kind of behavior pisses me off . what could be the reason for the disappearing eye? it is no secret I am still in the camp that thinks these mystery glyphs could be treasure related. is it just coincidence that these glyphs are disappearing or does some clown out there think he is protecting whatever it might be for himself? left hand signature glyphs sing out of freemasonry, the eye of providence with semicircular glory extending down also make me wonder. that great big eye on the lue map with all of the geometric symbols gives me more to think about with these eye glyphs than time will allow .anyone care to enlighten me as to why someone would do this to this one particular glyph?
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#78  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:58 pm

I think it may have been kids possibly ... whoever it was didn't finish the job for whatever reason ... there's also been a panel or two destroyed by construction, but that is another story ... it pisses me off too amigo ... more is on the way ...
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#79  Postby Terry L Carter » Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:59 pm

Florida Photographer
These symbols are carved on all kinds of rock i.e. sand stone, granite, slate, etc.
You stated in one of your posts that these symbols had to be carved with a chisel and you are right they were carved with some kind of hardened metal. They have all been neatly and meticulously carved into the different kind of rocks. People have know problem looking at the carvings in south America and agreeing that they are ancient and had to have been done with some kind of hardened tool. However, those same people say that it could not have happened here in North America, I ask why not. There are evidences of trade that went on between North and South America.

The harder rocks like granite still show the craftsmanship of the mystery glyph engravings while the softer sand stone ones look more ragged, do to the deterioration of the stone. If you take a measurement or tracing of all the different symbols of the different sites you will find out that they are all close to the exact same size and shape as there duplicate in one of the other sites in the Western U.S.

When one knows all the facts about these symbols then there is know question as to them being at least historic. Meaning the very latest they could have been carved was some time in the late 1800s. However, there are also some evidences suggesting that they could be much older than that.

I will post a few of my evidences but I wont share everything as I have already had someone take a lot of my material and made a book out of it. I have also had some one take the stories and pictures from my web page and put them on thier web page making it look like it was thiers.

One of the evidences for them being older is the lichen handprints over the symbols that Whyte Eagle has posted a picture of on one of these threads. When I took the photo of these particular symbols, I did not see the handprints but when I got my pictures back, they showed up in the photo. After they made the symbol, they placed a red handprint over it, years later the lichens started growing around the handprint but could not grow over the paint. Finally, the paint wore off and the lichen could start to grow where the paint was. However, the lichen around the handprint had a lot longer to grow so it is heavier leaving a shadow of where the handprint used to be.

I have been researching these symbols off and on ever since I found a set of them High in the cliffs in Provo. That was sometime in the late eighties or early nineties. Since then I have had many theories as to their meaning and have had many speculations as to who could have carved them, when and why. The more I learned about these the more I had to change my theories, Im still no closer to figuring out who carved them or why, than when I started.

Hear is my uneducated guess as to who carved them. If they were carved in the eighteen hundreds then my guess is Mark Twain did them. He traveled across the western United States, and was developing his own pictorial language. To date I have not been able to find out what his pictorial language looked like, but I have not had the time to search very hard either. If they are Ancient, then I believe it was a small group of sailors/explorers who landed some where in California left them. I think they traveled inland a ways then split up into two or three groups exploring the western united states leaving these messages then meeting back at there ship.

If you look at all the different sites, you can see that 9 times out of 10 there is something special about the site. Take Cedar city for instance, I believe that this person or small group was traveling around the western United States and did not know the first thing about the areas where these are carved. I believe that they searched around for the perfect spot to leave these symbols. How long would it have taken them to find the cedar city site, not knowing the area? At most of the sites there is some sort of rock shelter or cave near by the symbols. They could have carved these symbols on any flat rock in the area but they searched for the perfect spot, sometimes taking them in the most rugged and inaccessible places in the area. This took time so this group was not just traveling through sight seeing.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#80  Postby Terry L Carter » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:01 pm

Bob
In the early sixties Jose davila translated the Fillmore site as being Nephite Reformed Egyptian

(see the Mysery Glyph site for the full story www.MysteryGlyphs.com )

He said that Moroni left the symbols there in Fillmore and that the M with the eye and the red hand print over it was Moroni's signature. when Jose found out about the Cedar City site he translated it to be left by Mormon. Some people believing in Jose and his translation decided they wanted Mormon amd Moroni's signature so the started chiseling them off. Thats how they came to be destroyed.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#81  Postby Florida Photographer » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:01 pm

Terry Carter, you stated in your post:
"I will post a few of my evidences but I wont share everything as I have already had someone take a lot of my material and made a book out of it. I have also had some one take the stories and pictures from my web page and put them on thier web page making it look like it was thiers."

I am sorry to hear that some loosers did that. I thank you very much for sharing the pictures of those glyphs with us all. I also thank Whyte for posting them. Thank you both.

Being able to see the different glyphs and the large number and distribution of them leads me to believe they were not created as a hoax. It also demonstrates how real things that exist in the world can be far more interesting and mysterious than fictitious things. I hope that your posting the glyphs will stimulate some serious investigation into their origin and meaning.

I have very limited free time, and limited ability in this field of research, but am underway exploring for answers.

Just a question so I can get pointed in the right direction: are these sights by any chance all within proximity of former/current railroad tracks or sidings?
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#82  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:03 pm

FloridaPhotographer ... in answer to your question

Just a question so I can get pointed in the right direction: are these sights by any chance all within proximity of former/current railroad tracks or sidings?


I can only think of one panel that is close to any rail roads ...
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#83  Postby Satorilost » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:03 pm

Lund is the nearest... I think and is at
least 40 or more miles west northwest.
of Cedar City.

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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#84  Postby InspectorClueSo » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:04 pm

Ok boyz!! It's time to chime in again. The eye with the M seems to be a popular recurring figure in several of the panels? Could be a signature of sorts no doubt. It should be noted that there is a large relief carved eye in relation to the shot put man. Very short distance away to the west. As to the signatures of Moroni (I too have heard these stories)--what a bunch of hot air!! I am LDS and think it would be great if it were but--how does one determine if some carving is his signature? If the language is extinct you would need to break down the language!! If we use one of three egypian languages as a guide for breaking an extinct language--there was enough writing to fill hundreds of volumns and it still could not be interpreted until the discovery of the Rosetta Stone. Many years were spend in vain. Then there is always a good chance that the language is not alphabetical anyway so even if you break the language--signatures, because they are personal are not going to show up in the language as repetitive symbols used over and over--almost imposible to determine even if the language is broken (unless it is alphabetic). The next thing to consider is that the word Moroni means "holder of the high priesthood" So even if you could determine that a symbol meant 'Moroni'--it may not even indicate a single individual and may not be intended to identify anyone!
As to proximity to a railroad--I think that one panel was destroyed in Idaho while blasting a railroad tunnel? As too their being indicators to treasure--how can you say that unless the symbols used are known--either a non-extinct language--or known symbology used by a known group or symbols that have been determined by repetitive knowledge being gained by using the same symbols in different panels to come up with the same results?
I do have information about the ancient map in Fillmore and I am pretty sure that I know of other locations of mystery panels.
I think that more information can possible be easily obtained about this language but everyone is to protective of information.
I don't believe that these panels are a hoax although I do have difficulty with the possible ages of the panels.
As far as being carved by unknown persons or groups--they could EASILY be done by unknowns!! There are lots of unknowns found in Utah alone all the time!! I just spent two days photographing carved panels in Utah that were done by two different groups of guess what--UNKNOWNS!! No one knows who did them or where they came from although the one group carved reindeer and mastadons so I am pretty sure that they came from the north--but then maybe not!
Anyway--great discussion and I wish everyone the best in their research.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#85  Postby SteveNM46 » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:04 pm

The symbols could very well be an 'invented' language using somewhat familiar icons with private meanings attached to them by persons unknown for purposes unknown to anyone outside their group. The 'Moroni signature' idea is a preposterous attempt to promote religious dogma IMHO. The New Mexico glyphs are located about a mile and a half from a deadhead rail spur that was removed about 30 years ago. With nothing other than a hunch to go on, I would guess these carvings are 75-150 years old.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#86  Postby PSursa » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:05 pm

In my opinion,,I think these Mystery Glyphs are symbolism's of the danites, so unless you can find an active danite of today then they will not be deciphered. the secretive group of the danites did not end in Missouri, the group was still meeting when the Mormons settled in Utah.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#87  Postby InspectorClueSo » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:06 pm

I believe these are authentic (at least most of them) and old. My kids tell me that I am ancient!! If they are more than 150 years old--who did them? Prior to the Mormon migration from the east--the western states were largely owned by Mexico and there weren't many people traveling the interior. There were some California occupancies including Spanish missions and some 'American' occupations but large numbers were unheard of traveling the wagon trails. There were trappers and some explorers traveling the interior and I suppose that one of them could have done the glyphs? If they predate the trappers then the native americans are the next suspicion. If it is native american the only one that I could identify a connection to is jibawa. There are hand glyphs and other characters (such as the first and primary symbol at the Fillmore site) that parrallel or mimic the Mayan of South America. If not one of these, the next guess is one of the many groups that were in the U.S. over thousands of years that we know little about--if not one of those--aliens-haha. lol-
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#88  Postby InspectorClueSo » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:06 pm

One other thought--the use of hands--native american indians seldom drew hands. The way I understand it--you didn't carve things that didn't matter and there wasn't much to convey with the use of hands. Most of the hands that you do see are full size, scratched or painted around an actual hand and meaning something pecular to the actual hand. The Mayan culture used glyphs of the hand in many, many different positions and there are hundreds of different meanings. The hand glyphs in these panels are in very specific positions and are I believe a specific part of the language used with specific meanings attached to each glyph depending on its position. The painted hand print over a glyph means something else altogether--possibly a seal or sorts.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#89  Postby Florida Photographer » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:08 pm

If you look at the photo that SteveNM submitted it will clue you in to the rest. His photo was the key to figuring out the rest.

The mystery symbols are not what you think. They are even MORE INTERESTING than anyone of us imagined. If you can track down their story, then by golly someone could make an award winning motion picture about it.

They are of West African origin. What a rich history! Escaped slaves turned Seminole tribe members and their migration west after slaughtering General Dades troops in Florida. By the time the Seminole "Indians" migrated west they were 70% African American. Or it may have just been a small group of escaped slaves. Or some other story. No matter. If you can track down the story, what a story there will be to tell!

If you look at that photo that SteveNM submitted, it could have been photographed just about anywhere in West Africa.

Here is a book to get you started: Signs of Diaspora Diaspora of Signs - by Grey Gundaker - 304 pages

Mr. Carter you have most certainly found a missing piece of American History. Congratulations!
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#90  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:12 pm

OK ... been doing some research into this latest theory and am ready to give my opinion ...

First off if you are referring to this image:

Image
Image Courtesy of SteveNM

then one important thing needs to be made clear, although this is a good panel of what I'd call Native American made petroglyphs, mixed with glyphs of different origin, it lacks the organization and look of what we are refering to as the Mystery Glyphs of the Western US ...

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Image Courtesy of Terry Carter

It's easy to see that the Mystery Glyphs are uniquely organized and laid out with definite purpose.

Next ... just for clarification as to the name of the book you made reference to, I was not familiar with the word "Diaspora" so here is the definition according to Wikipedia:

The term: diaspora (in Greek, "a scattering or sowing of seeds" ) is used (without capitalization) to refer to any people or ethnic population forced or induced to leave their traditional ethnic homelands; being dispersed throughout other parts of the world, and the ensuing developments in their dispersal and culture.


so with a better understanding of this tidbit of info I set out to examine what I could from Africa which would correspond to being old or ancient ... I've literally examined dozens of ancient and modern African scripts both online and off ... and so far have found no matches ... not even as much as one symbol ... that one could identify as a possible match to any of the symbols of the Mystery Glyphs of the Western US ... so at this point I'm going to say this theory is exactly that, only a theory ...

BTW, I didn't read the whole book cover to cover but did skim through it and it is an interesting read, but I don't think it will lead to any new understanding of who left the Mystery Glyphs in the Western US ... :? ...
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#91  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:12 pm

hello whyte , I must admit there is some interesting stuff going on here and I want to change my guess just a bit . i still think that at least one of them " the mystery glyphs " are treasure related , but I think i will include " the aztec " post 1520 in the runner up catagory for the mystery authors. I am looking into this a little more as time goes by. for reasons I cannot go into great detail about they have moved up in the race with the spanish/ jesuit for now .i am still just guessing using what little bit of info that I know about them. I AM HOWEVER CONFIDENT THAT YOU AND TERRY WILL FIGURE THE MYSTERY OUT SOONER THAN LATER . good luck amigo.////bob.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#92  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:13 pm

after thinking about the aztec thing all night I have decided that the answer is ." i have no earthly idea " it was stupid to suggest that the aztec post 1520 left them . either they were left here by a group of unknown's or the jesuit's ???????. the more I know the less answers I have . no wonder this thing is such a mystery . i will say one thing , the author's whoever they may have been , meant for glyphs to be understood only by thier own little group. a few of these symbols may have meanings that are still common knowledge but in this context I find myself lost in the enigma itself. maybe they were left to confuse us ,perhaphs they were meant to distract those that came later snooping around in the hills for whatever secrets the areas they are in , still might hold. i really do not know.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#93  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:13 pm

Personally I think you are right about the possible purpose of making the petroglyphs ... whoever the author was, they wanted them to endure to a future date, for what reason? Just one more mystery concerning them ... ;=) ...
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#94  Postby Florida Photographer » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:15 pm

Whyte, don't give up on my African hypothesis just yet. (not a theory, just a hypothesis). You got diaspora correct. It is a Sociological jargon word that we sociologists use to mean "dispersion". Sorry about the jargon word, I wasn't thinking. "Signs of Diaspora Diaspora of Signs" means Signs of dispersion, dispersion of signs. Distribution. I think the Anthropologist meant it the same way.

I will post an explaination of this hypothesis soon. Just busy this weekend. I will be more clear on what I am trying to say. Again, this is not my field of science, so bear with me. What I have to say may not be exactly on the money, but may cause a light bulb to come on somewhere. :geek:

Even if I am totally wrong, and wind up looking like a complete idiot . . . hey, I'm taking a stab at it right? (good place for Whyte to place some words of encouragement :) )

I do thank you for being civil in your opinions. It encourages people to post. Always want to be able to sit down and break open a couple of ice cold bottles of water with a guy after a good discussion and chuckle about it. ;=)

Even if I suspect he may drink that sissy FLAVORED WATER! :lol:
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#95  Postby Whyte Eagle » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:16 pm

I try to keep an open mind, especially when it comes to the Mystery Glyphs ... after 20 years of researching these glyphs I'd like to see a light bulb go on somewhere ... anywhere ... ;=) ...
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#96  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:16 pm

hey whyte can we both be right . saw something the other day it rocked my very belief system . it looked very old, my unprofessional opinion was 5000 - 10000 years . it was on the way to the watermelon patch. it is also my unprofessional opinion that the Spaniards were there too .Spaniards must have liked those very old melons. {don't know if I know anything any more} . might have seen an anchor on the way too, silly anchor folks need not worry about them there watermelons. the farmer said they are far too old to pick, but I just wanted a picture for the better homes and gardens. /////////sorry about the silly post but like i said I don't know if I know anything anymore . o I almost forgot uncle bill said them danites should leave his favorite nephew alone. seems uncy was there captain , but he got in a big fight with the big bearded man , and that is too bad.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#97  Postby Satorilost » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:17 pm

Kanabite, Your being way to exact with you description.
Could you use more vague language next time
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#98  Postby Kanabite » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:18 pm

sorry man . I have had to re think every thing that I thought I once knew . i wrote several real descriptions but I just could not bring myself to post them, you will have to bear with me . there are so many half truths out there that i am only now beginning to understand the bottom of the truth . pride and arrogance are a hard thing for a man to let go of .I will not be able to get this right because for the first time in thirty years I have no answers. all I can tell you is whyte eagle may be right in his origins theory . he is either correct in that these glyphs are ancient or they are a newer version of a very ancient thing. without knowing more all I can do is bring harm to this subject, and it is not my intention to speak out of turn even one more time without at least having some better idea of what it is I am talking about. no more half truths from me , no more want a be hot shot treasure hunter.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#99  Postby Satorilost » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:19 pm

Wiseman say you learn more by listening than speaking.
and I have it on good authority that whytes still learning too ;=)

It's good every once in a while to take a step back or slip someone
elses shoes or glasses on, just to make sure your not missing the
forest because the trees are in the way.

One thing for certain. If there are as many rock anomalys in other states
as there are in Utah there were Many Others.
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Re: Found Some Glyphs in So. Utah

Post Number:#100  Postby DigitalChaos » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:19 pm

well, i haven't been to these forums in quite a long time. Life got pretty hectic pretty quick. However, things have settled down and my interest in these glyphs and treasure hunting and learning utahs history, etc. has once again been peaked.

so maybe something to help decipher the symbols would be to
see which glyphs share similar symbols and then see if there's anything unique about the surrounding area. As an example if there are two sites with a wavy lines symbol and only at those two sites you'll find water (stream, river) then maybe that symbol represents water. I say this because when i was looking at the cedar city ones i noticed wavy symbol that i thought might represent water and i know that there's a dry riverbed just east of where these glyphs are that might not have been dry when these glyphs were made. might be a far fetched idea.. but just thought i'd throw it out there...
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